Jason Cercone 00:00
There's things that come after the initial experience that are going to make people want to engage with it more. So you have to set the table the right way, and not just be in sales mode, or else you could completely squash any opportunity to build a relationship with the person you're communicating with or having the conversation with, but also with members of the audience.
Mickey Anderson 00:22 (Intro)
Most business owners and entrepreneurs are secretly sick of hustling. And if you are too, you're in the right place. Welcome to the Hustle Less Profit More podcast with me, Mickey Anderson, where we're revolutionizing success, because you should have it all. Business success, lasting wealth, freedom, and fulfillment. Join me on this quest to uncover the keys to defining and achieving success on our terms, so we can all hustle less and profit more.
Mickey Anderson 01:02
Today's guest has a unique perspective as both a podcast guest and host and in today's episode we dig into why starting that new podcast you were thinking about might not be the best idea. We dig into how you can leverage podcast guesting to both grow your business and set you up for success when you are ready to start your own podcast. Jason Cercone is a podcast branding strategist, author and experienced podcaster. He helps a value driven Coaches and Consultants establish authority have become thought leaders in their niche through strategic impactful podcast guest appearances. Oh, and he's also the voice of the Evolution of Brand podcast featuring authentic stories and strategies. brand building professional designed to help you grow your personal brand and succeed in your professional pursuits. I hope you enjoy this incredible episode with Jason Cercone. Podcasting is a massive topic it is growing at a ridiculous rate and everybody wants to get a piece of this high whether it's guesting hosting, or just promoting other people's shows finding ways for affiliate marketing. It is a massive market. And if you aren't interested in or tapping into it, you might be missing out. And I am so excited for today's guest Jason Cercone, who's here to help us learn more about how we can step into this podcasting game as guests in particular. Jason, thank you so much for being here.
Jason Cercone 02:21
Mickey, thank you so much for bringing me on your show. I'm a big fan of what you're doing. And it's so great to get to talk with you and your audience today. It's gonna be a lot of fun.
Mickey Anderson 02:28
Yeah, I'm super excited to dig in. You know, before we started recording, we were chatting all things podcasting, and some of the faux pas that we've experienced in terms of being a guest and a host. And, you know, I think many people are a little bit concerned about being a guest on a podcast show, mainly because they don't understand the edit what the process looks like, I've never done it before and you're basically jumping off a cliff into the unknown. Is it really that risky for newcomers to just dive into podcasts guesting?
Jason Cercone 02:57
No, it's not risky. I think one of the big things that holds people back or makes them look at this differently as they're viewing it as a performance piece. And they feel that because the cameras on, they have to show up, and they're going to be in front of millions and millions of people and the spotlights on them. Now the spotlight is on you. But you're in a one-on-one environment unless there's two hosts or multiple hosts, but you're talking one on one and just having a conversation. And that's really where the magic happens. This conversation is for the benefit of you and I, Mickey, but the world gets to hear it, it's a tremendous bonus. And that's where the best podcast content comes from is these organic, powerful conversations where we can really tap into a certain subject, dig into our thoughts on it and provide some expertise that the audience can then take and put into action in their own world. So if you're new to this, if you're looking at it as this type of performance piece, and you feel like I'm introverted, and I'm not really not going to have a lot to talk about, there's a lot of ways to overcome that. And step one is not looking at it as a performance. And just looking at it as a simple conversation where you get to geek out about your biggest passions, you should be able to talk about that no matter what skill level you're at.
Mickey Anderson 04:08
What a great perspective, you know, I had conversations this week with a few people who are starting their own podcasts. And they've never guested on podcast before, and that they're both introverted and terrified of public speaking. And it just kind of makes me laugh. But that was one of their biggest fears was, Oh, my goodness, the spotlights going to be on me, I'm going to be on camera. But it is true. It's a very different environment than standing up on a stage
Jason Cercone 04:29
It is. You get a lot of the similarities in regards to skill set and pacing and breathing and things that will obviously help your technique in regards to how you're carrying on a conversation here. And if you ever do get to that point to where you're going on stage, or you're speaking in front of your team, or maybe it's a group of potential investors, whatever the case may be, you can learn skills and tricks of the trade in the podcast space that will naturally translate. It can even make conversations that you have with loved ones more powerful because you start to activate those active listening skills, you start to communicate on a much stronger level. And it can give you that opportunity when you're sitting with somebody one on one to actually listen and not think about the next thing that you're going to say. All things that come with time. And that's one of the big again, we talked about the hold backs. Another thing that might hold somebody back that introverted parts huge. But they may just feel like they don't have those communication skills, and they just can't carry on a conversation. And I can speak from experience. Eight years ago, when I first started this, I had radio experience in the past, but I felt like I was just going to make this natural transition. Nope, I sucked. Because again, it was a mindset thing. For me, I wasn't thinking about this conversation that was taking place between me and my co host, on our very first recording, I was looking at it as a performance. And that's where again, your mind can get tricked. So you have to think about the conversation part of it and think about all the things that you've used in your life up to that point, it's going to make you excel, and then you'll develop those skills over time. And they'll translate to other areas of your life.
Mickey Anderson 06:09
I love that, you know, I personally got into podcasting mainly to practice public speaking. And my ability to communicate like that was my ultimate goal was to learn how to interview better learn how to have better conversations, and I think that was a great mindset. Because I knew my first couple episodes, were going to suck. And I'm sorry, to my listeners for those first few episodes. I did not have a game interview skills yet, right? Like I was learning to, but I think we kind of have to embrace that like sucking at things a little bit when you're jumping into something new like this
Jason Cercone 06:37
1,000% and that transcends podcasting. That's everything, you're not going to be the greatest at what you do on the very first crack at it. It's just that's life. None of us came out of the womb running marathons. Think about how we were swaddled for the first couple of years of her life. And then when we finally started making moves, our parents were so cautious to not let us hit our heads and then we'd start pulling ourselves up, and then you'd fall flat and everything was changing, but like everybody was like, give it another try. It's okay, we know this is gonna happen, then you just keep doing it and doing it. And eventually you get it. Well, then we reach adulthood, and it's like, oh, God, God, God, no, we can't fail. This has got to be pristine, right out of the gates. That never freakin happens. You have to think about this from the standpoint of everything else you've thought about in your life. If you're passionate about it, and you really want to learn and develop the skill set, you're going to take the first swing, I'm a golfer, so I always compare it to golf, been playing since I was seven. Still not PGA worthy, but I can hold my own. And I know that it comes from constantly taking practice swings and developing my skill set when I was seven. No, I never clue the beaten a ball around the course. Now, like you learn over time, how to get better at things. And if you really want to stick to it and get better at them, you'll commit to it. And that's going to make all the difference. But don't expect to run out of the gates with the best possible podcasts on your very first try. Like I can say Evolution of Brand, my show. That was the amalgam of seven years of podcast experience. But I can still tell a difference. When I go back and listen to episode one. Versus episode. I think as we sit and speak episode 140 just went live, major difference in how I'm speaking to my guests and how I'm communicating. Even though I had experienced coming in, I still work to cultivate it. And it's made all the difference.
Mickey Anderson 08:31
You know, you have a unique perspective as a host and a guest. I think that's one of the things I know I'm really glad that I started hosting and guesting around the same time because I learned a lot of the mistakes on both sides. But I think a lot of guests have no idea what the experience of the host is, what they're looking for, what they what they really need the show to be. And that can make it really hard for both the host and the guests. So when we're thinking of being a good guest, what should we be thinking about when it comes to the host?
Jason Cercone 09:00
That's a great question. I think it starts with respect. When you are asked to be a part of a podcast production. That means that the host sees something in your story in your messaging that they know they can put in front of their audience and their audience is going to gobble it up. And if they didn't feel that way, more than likely they would look right past you. Or if you reached out to them, they would just slide your guest request to the bottom of the pile. If you respect with that podcast or has to go through to put an episode together. And I'll try to run this down. And as I do it, I know I'm gonna miss things. You're trying to plan out what you want to talk about you want to you're obviously you have a pretty direct message, but you want to be bringing in people that complement that message. They have to find the right personalities. So you have to learn about this person, then you have to develop a show format. That's after you reach out and if they say yes, so if they've said yes, now you're developing a show format and then you've got to schedule the record. And then you've got to have the recording. And then you've got to make sure that goes smoothly, make sure everybody's audio sounds good, then all the post production work, making it all come together, then you've got to build assets to promote the show, then you've got to put everything out into the world and continue to promote it and get people to put their ears on it. So they hear this podcast. And then because we're all nuts, we do it the next week. And then we do it the week after that, because that's we this is a labor of love. But at the same time, this is content that we're producing the positions our brand, is something people need to be paying attention to. And when you can have those types of collaborative relationships with others, you can create some magical content that your audience is going to love to absorb, and then they're going to start recommending it to others. When they recommend it to others. That's how you experience true tangible growth with your podcast. So as the guest, you have to respect every word I just said, you have to come at this knowing that the podcaster has a goal in mind for what they want to accomplish. And you're gonna play a major role in that. When you do play a major role in that and you bring value to the microphone, you tell good stories you're engaging, you share the content with your audience, because not only does it help the podcaster, it helps you it positions you as an expert in your field, everybody's going to win, because that's how growth takes place. More ears hear that podcast, that's more people that are falling in love with it. Now, they may resonate with your message, they may turn to a colleague and say, Listen, Mickey's podcast kicks ass, you need to listen to this, I'm learning so much he brings on great guests, the conversations are riveting, you're gonna love it. Now your show is growing and more people are hearing it. And that's what we need to take place. And that's really where the difference is between the podcasts that are excelling. And the ones that are falling flat. They're not focusing on that riveting, engaging content. And then the guests are coming in with a transactional mindset, thinking, I'm just going to show up and talk for a few minutes and sell my course and I'm out the door, and you'll never hear from me, again, you're leaving so much on the table when you approach it with that attitude. So working together and respecting what podcasters are looking to accomplish, put you in a whole new light as a guest.
Mickey Anderson 12:14
You know, I love the collaborative take when it comes to episodes like this, because a lot of times it's true, both as a guest and as a host, I've had experiences where people are very much one sided. Right, the host just needs another episode to go this week, right? And they don't really promote it and you feel very transactional. And then as a guest as well, sometimes you come on and you hope you did a good job and then forget that the episode ever happened and don't do anything. You don't want to be that person. But a lot of it is about the content, right? That conversation. And I know as a guest, I've had moments where I'm like, I have no idea what to say, what should I be coming to the table with? What should I prepare? Do I need a call to action? Those sorts of things? So as I guest, when we're looking at the contents in conversation, are there things we can do to set ourselves up for success?
Jason Cercone 12:59
Oh, absolutely. This is one of the big bugaboos that I see with a lot of one sheets or media kits that get sent my way. Or if I'm looking at like pod matches where you and I connected, that's a big platform that I utilize for finding guest appearances and for finding guests for my show. So I'm constantly looking at profiles. And if I see that section where questions could be supplied, that will help put you in this position of great experience and really make you shine. That's a huge mess. I mean, some podcasters will look at those questions and not use any of them. And that's fine if they if a podcaster has a clear idea of how they want their show to go. And they're not going to utilize any of that information you supply. So be it, it's their ship to steer, we're there as their first mate to help the journey go as smoothly as possible. I just like I want to draw Gilligan's Island, parallel to what I just said. But let's move on. But so many potential guests leave that aspect of their profiles blank. Or they're asking some surface level questions that really don't engage and elicit a powerful response. And that's what's needed. Like those questions that I have on my one sheet. And on my profile, I call them conversation starters. For me, I want a conversation to take place because I know I'm going to be more engaged in that process. I know the content is going to be better for the end listener when they hear it. And I know that our relationship as we start to cultivate it is going to be in a much better place because we've had this powerful conversation. If you just asked me a series of questions, and I know we've all listened to podcasts like this. Some of us have been guests on podcasts like this, where you ask me a question and I give my answer hoping to stimulate a conversation. You just go. Great. Then you move on to the next question. That type of content falls flat. And we're in a world where podcasting is becoming so prevalent, that the more engaging the content is, the more you're going to suck a listener in you're going to get them invest in what you're doing, and you're gonna get them to come back the next week and the week after that, and then start telling others how much they love your show, that's going to be paramount for growth as we continue to move forward. So as a guest, the more quality information you can give to that podcaster. So they can build formats that cater to your expertise, the better off you're going to be. And the more you're going to shine when that episode goes live.
Mickey Anderson 15:24
Yeah, I love that. Because honestly, like, that's one of the things that I look for when I'm looking for guests, especially on pod match, because they make it so easy. And if someone skips over those key components, you know, that they really didn't put time into this, and they don't really care. And, you know, I looked through your questions. And that's one of the things too, that I noticed on great shows, and not so great shows is if it's just question answer, question answer, and it's very much scripted. It's not really fun for anybody. One of the things that I found super helpful for me personally was, I became a better guest and a better host, when I started listening to more podcasts, try and listen to the things that I as a listener really loved. And the things I really didn't care for. Like, for example, I hate the slow intro. Right? Like, the very first thing if we go into either an introduction from the host or a deep introduction from the guests, I'm gone, I'm checked out. So I love to dig in. And I know that my listeners do. Are there anything that you've uncovered, from listening to other great shows that you find really resonate with listeners?
Jason Cercone 16:27
Well, let's, let's go to the negative ones first, because I was doing I love it. The thing that I can't stand to hear and oftentimes I'll turn off a podcast, if I hear it is if somebody starts off saying that we have to do some housekeeping first. I couldn't give a crap about your housekeeping, get me to why I showed up, get to the value of the content, you preview that you have X guest and you're talking about Y subject. If that resonates with me, and I'm hitting play, I want to hear it. I don't want to hear three minutes of music followed by a 10-minute Jay Leno monologue, followed by the housekeeping and then 10 ads, and then we're half an hour deep and you're finally get into the conversation. No, it has to get people to the value as fast as possible. Because we're in a world of short form content, right, like attention grabbing, and three seconds or less. That can apply to podcasting, too. Now the window is a little longer. But if you can do your job of have some intro, for me, if you listen to my show, my intro music underlies or it's a layer underneath my wording of Welcome to the show. I'm Jason Cercone. And this week, we have so and so we're talking about XY and Z, let's get to it, I do a quick little 30 second ad, and we're into the content about less than a minute and a half in. Like for me, when I hear podcasts, it's getting me to the value as fast as possible. I know I want to listen, you have to get people engaged. So that's one of the bigger things that I hate. We'll talk about dynamic ad insertion real quick, because I know people want to make a buck and monetize your podcast and I get it. But if you've got a show that's half an hour long, and you're doing a pre roll, which is the ad before the show starts now the ad in the middle and an ad at the end. And it's not anything related to you. It's like for Geico or Liberty Mutual selling car insurance. More than likely, people are going to say this has too many ads, I don't want to watch it. I know I've experienced that, like with Facebook videos of me peppered with ads every minute, I'm out, I don't care about the content anymore. So start thinking about your listener experience. So I would say again, some of the positives that I've found in talking and hearing podcasts are the ones that do the exact opposite. They're focused on the value, they set the table real early, they let you know exactly what you're going to learn and they get to it. Because that's really what people are showing up for. Now, if you've got a message that you need to deliver, do a little separate episode or tag it on at the end, but people are going to show up for what you're advertising, get them to that as fast as possible. And again, with podcasting becoming this more important entity and more people getting involved and starting their show, when you start to focus in on these things. That's what's going to really be a driving force for you and make you stand out. And I'll throw this in there too. Because this is one of the things I see that it's not just a podcasting thing. I think we all have shiny object syndrome that we want to find the best possible thing that's going to help us get to the biggest possible level. And we ignore the fundamentals. So as a podcaster what are the two biggest things you should be focused on? It's not the greatest transcription service. It's not how fast you can edit for God's sake. It's not ChatGPT, I know that can help. But my God, that's not what you need to be focusing on at the beginning. You need to be focusing on your active listening. And you need to be focusing on how you project your voice. Both skills that will build over time, the more you practice it, but you also have to be aware of it and be thinking about it. So you can put emphasis on it. And that's going to serve you in your podcast, whether you're a host or a guest, much longer than AI software. I mean, I know that's the rage is you and I sit and record on February 1st. And again, I understand that that's coming. And it's here. It's taking over whatever. You can't ignore the fundamentals. That's got to start that's got to be the start.
Mickey Anderson 20:31
Yeah, I love it. Because I think we see podcasting many times as a sales pitch, right? As a guest coming in, you have something you want to sell you want to talk about. We're all business owners here we get it. But one of the big challenges is you get a guest and they hijack the show, and just sell their services the entire time and it doesn't really deliver value. Is there a way that we as guests in be more strategic and maybe more respectful when we're selling or promoting our stuff on podcasts?
Jason Cercone 20:58
Oh, absolutely. As a guest, I will give you this advice right now. Don't expect that to go live. And I encourage any podcaster that feels they're going to be compromising their content, to not air that episode. Our job is not to show up and sell our job is to come as a source of value. tell some stories, have some fun with it. engage people so when they do hear our voice, and they do connect with our message, they want to take the next step and come into our world and learn more about how we can deliver the transformations they seek. This is the trailer to the movie. That's what I always compare podcast guesting to, I'm not watching, I'm not giving you the full-length feature. You come here, you're gonna hear a little bit more about me about what I do, how I've built my brand, how I can help you with your brand, but it's not everything. It's enough to say, Wow, that's really good. I want to go back to the theater and see that whole full-length picture, I'm gonna go see Avatar, because I saw the preview, you know what I mean? Like, it's a mindset, but it's how you show up as a guest. And it comes back to that respect thing. No one's tuning into a camera or into a podcast for a commercial. If it's a 30 minute one, now it's an infomercial land, and you might as well just be cutting a shoe in half with a knife at three in the morning. Because that's the people that want to hear that kind of thing or see that kind of thing. Your job is to be a source of value, Route, everything you do in that value. And give people a reason to follow you after the show ends and give the host everything they need to do the selling for you. If you're a valuable resource, that host is going to tell their audience why they need to connect with you to learn more. You don't have to do any selling. But in reality, you did selling without actually doing it. It's a wonderful thing.
Mickey Anderson 22:44
I love it, I think when we the concept of thinking of the listener first too, I think applies the whole way through because we get wrapped up in our own kind of spiel, right like I've got, I got a podcast around you got a product to promote a service to promote. And it becomes very much so about you and me and the things we need and less and less about the listener. So I love that we're really thinking about delivering value to the listener and to the host and making it completely beneficial to everyone on all levels.
Jason Cercone 23:17
And we're gonna both get that opportunity to accomplish what we need to accomplish to we just don't need to do it for the full length of the podcast. It's more about the content on the front end. And then if that content serves its purpose, if you love the Avatar, you may have went and bought the t shirt, you may have bought the DVD for home. Like there's things that come after the initial experience that are going to make people want to engage with it more. So you have to set the table the right way, and not just be in sales mode, or else you could completely squash any opportunity to build a relationship with the person you're communicating with or having the conversation with, but also with members of the audience.
Mickey Anderson 23:55
Great. So for the listeners. If you take anything away from today's episode, it's really think about the value you're going to deliver before you worry about the rest of the sales spiel that will happen naturally if you do a good job of value.
Mickey Anderson 24:12 (ad)
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Mickey Anderson 24:50
That's great advice. Now let's talk a little bit about pre show because this is one of those areas that I think feels a little mysterious, and it's also skipped over pretty frequently but you and I both know the power of a great pre show and greenroom as you said. So, as a guest, when we're trying to do our best job to be respectful of the host to be respectful of the listeners, what can we do before the show airs to really set everyone up for success.
Jason Cercone 25:16
If you don't have a pre call before you actually connect for the first time that some podcasters do that, they won't interview anybody until they have that call. Others rely more on automation, like I know, I do a mix of both really depending on what the host want, or I'm sorry, what the guest wants to do. But typically, I just gained all my information through an intake form. And I made that pretty thorough. So I could automate the process to some degree. But one thing you can do, if you haven't had that initial call, and this is your first time experiencing this podcaster go listen to some of their content before you show up. Look for people that you know I that's usually the first thing I do. Whenever I'm checking out a podcast I'm about to make a guest appearance on, I look for people that either I've had on my show, or I've connected with on LinkedIn or combination of both, or I've been on their show, because more than likely, I've already built a relationship with that person. And I want to know more about what they have to say. As I told you, Mickey, the one that I grabbed the gravity immediately was Dustin Reichmann. Because I had him on my show him and I have communicated on LinkedIn a lot about the guesting space. And we have a lot of mutual agreements in regards to how this process works. So I wanted to hear more about what Dustin had to say. So that was how I got indoctrinated into your podcast. consider myself very much an extrovert. So I know that when I arrive, I'm going to start the conversation immediately. And we're going to have some fun today. So I can set the table in that way. But I've also experienced the other side of that too, even though I'm extroverted. If I've got people coming on my show, and they're very introverted, it's very hard to stimulate that conversation. And sometimes it can set the table for what you're about to experience as you do the actual interview. Now, that's not a blanket statement. Some people do open up once they get more comfortable with you. But not coming in cold is a great way to alleviate some of that early stress that you might feel about showing up to bring value. Because once you listen to an episode, you're going to know more about what that show is there to accomplish. And if you do have a discovery call to kick things off, you can ask those questions and use that 15-20 minute window to really learn what that podcaster wants to accomplish. So you can bring your A game to the mic and give them the best possible experience for your expertise as a guest.
Mickey Anderson 27:43
I live in, you know, you did something as a guest that just makes my heart flutter. So happily, we didn't do a pre call I personally I do my homework. I'm sure you've noticed this exact Yes, I do my homework as a host, I try to make sure that every guest has the best possible experience. And I come in prepared. But the very beginning, before we hit record, you asked me a question. And it just completely set the tone for our conversation. And I think our relationship, but it was, how can I make sure that this is great for you and your audience? And so instead of worrying about anything else, you started off the relationship with how can I be of service? And I think that was it's one of those things that when it happens, you're like it's a unicorn, yes, I know, this is gonna be a great episode.
Jason Cercone 28:27
You are the second person to call me a unicorn in the last two weeks. I think we might be on to something. Got to change my wardrobe here. But that's what this is this element of building your brand is about being a valuable resource. It's about being an asset. It's about helping you create content that's going to make your show explode. I want your show having millions and millions of people listening to it, because when they do they hear me and they hear you, and then hear all the other great guests that you have. So like there's like this little 1% Selfish element to it, but I'm a part of this. But if I played an active role in helping it grow, I shouldn't be proud to be part of it. And that's the mindset here. It's not about selling you get your opportunity to have a sales conversation with the right people, but you can't massively blast it to the whole audience and expect them to resonate with your message and actually need what you're promoting, which is why I get so flustered with LinkedIn when people just roll into my DMs like I got out of bed that day looking for them. And they're cold pitching me on nothing, that would be any relevance to me. But they think it is because they're doing that with 100 other people that day. It's spraying and praying and it doesn't work. My objective whenever I'm doing a podcast interview is twofold. I want to have the best possible conversation I can have. And I want to start building a relationship with that podcaster because I know that's going to create opportunities for me that maybe I can monetize this experience before my interview ever goes live. Mickey, maybe you and I can start working together, maybe you have people that you're connected to that need exactly what I'm promoting. Maybe you have five other podcast friends that talk about the same thing as you and they'd love to have me as a guest as well. Now, I'm working smarter, not harder with my guest appearances, there's so much opportunity in front of you, if you show up leading with value, instead of showing up thinking, you've got to take the stage and make a sale today. Start looking at it from a reverse engineers perspective. And you're gonna go a lot further and get a lot more from this.
Mickey Anderson 30:33
Yeah, you started highlighting some of the major benefits of being a great guest on a podcast, because being a guest on a podcast doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna get the benefits. But if you're a great guest, there are tons of opportunities. And you know, when you chatted a little bit about networking, and you mentioned something there, in particular, that I think it's important to highlight like my guest list, right, you as a guest now have a warm connection to everyone on my list. And if I think there's a connection there, I can make an introduction, if we have a great time, let's dig in a little bit more on all of those other kind of unique and maybe unknown benefits to being a guest on a podcast that people can look for.
Jason Cercone 31:11
Oh, there's so many in the list, it seems like I add something new to the list every day. I mean, obviously, the relationship building is huge. This is networking today, in 2023. So many people connect in this fashion. And you have the opportunity to build a very powerful relationship that in a lot of ways goes beyond what you can get at a live networking event, because that's usually so fast paced, and you're moving on to other people. And so in a lot of cases, some people are just trying to collect as many business cards as possible. But this is much more personal, you get this time with somebody to actually spend with them and learn more about what they're doing. And like I said, Before, you get to geek out about something you're passionate about. If you're building your brand in this respect you get it just allows you to hone your story and have fun with it. That's like a big part of this whole thing is the fun element that's tied to it. But in addition to the networking, you're building your know like and trust factor with the people that hear your message. It alleviates a lot of that cold selling that you have to do when you first meet a prospect because they heard you on a podcast, they know the value you can bring them. Now it's just a matter of finding out how you take the next step. So those early sales calls that may have you a little bit in a tizzy, because you'd have to do all of the sales process to get them warmed up. It's done, because you showed up and brought value to that podcast that they love to listen to. One of the big benefits and I don't know if this gets enough credit, and it absolutely should, or the SEO benefits that are tied to this, the organic discoverability that you create for yourself and your brand by going on podcasts and doing a great job. And then leaving one link, we'll talk about calls to action because this is something I think we need to cover too. But you leave one link that points back to a domain, that's a forwarding link to your website, whatever the whatever it is it gets people to your website, that starts to tell the algorithms all these very credible websites are putting your link and creating these backlinks for you. Now you've got all kinds of organic visibility. In addition to that, if someone were to look you up on let's say, Apple podcasts, or Spotify, and they need to look you up by name, you've got all of these podcasts that you were featured on. And they can tune into whichever one they choose. So that helps you but it also helps the podcast or potentially get discovered. So again, I could go on and on. And I'll add global reach these Podcast. I'm sure you got listeners around the globe. I know I do. Most podcasts do not all the audiences are enormous. But hey, you're reaching different corners of the earth. And your message gets this massive reach because of it. So, so many benefits that you can tap tap into. But it all starts with being valuable and having that good experience because you miss out on all of those things if you're in sales mode. And that's even if your episode goes live, because sometimes the podcasts are as I said, we'll hear that and say that my audience is not going to respond well to this. I'm out. We're not We're not airing this because that could potentially turn somebody off for good and they never come back. Like that's their first episode they discovered just a sales pitch. If that's what this is. It's not for me, and then they're gone. So that's a brief rundown. But yeah, I could go on and on, but I won't.
Mickey Anderson 34:28
I love it. And you know, before we dig into the calls to action, I think there's one thing that you kind of didn't really touch on that I think it's important to know why. And its audience size and reach. Right. I think when you first think about podcast guesting a lot of times we're like I need the biggest audience to be successful. But that's not really the case, isn't it?
Jason Cercone 34:46
No, not even close and you know, audience size and download numbers is really one of the biggest plagues that we have in the podcast space. It just it twists your mind for the dumbest reasons and it just makes you look at what this is for in the wrong through the wrong lens. If you're starting a podcast, you should not look at your metrics for six months. And at a minimum challenge yourself to go even longer because yes, can those metrics help you down the road? Certainly. But in the beginning, when you're first developing your audience and developing your skill set, your content needs time to come together, your focus needs to be on getting better. So you can serve your audience with better content. But if you look at your download numbers, and real Oh, man, there's only a few people listen to this. This is not worth my time, you end up quitting your show, before you ever break through. And the numbers don't lie, I think the average is like 8 to 10. People get that deep. And then they're like, wow, this isn't for me. No one's listening. I'm not getting a Joe Rogan deal from Spotify today. So clearly, podcasting is not my jam. Now. Like, even I am 140 episodes on my show. And I've been doing this for eight years now. And I still feel like I'm new and learning. Like I'm still fresh to the game because there are podcasts out there with 1000s of episodes. That's commitment. From the guest side, you start looking at guest appearances that you make. And if you're fixated on them having a certain metric, you may cost yourself an opportunity to wear a very tightly niched audience needs exactly what you have. And then at the end of the day, how many clients can you really take on especially if you're a solopreneur? So don't be trying to get on some podcast that has 50,000 downloads, and that's your standard, because that's going to be next to impossible. You need to look at shows for the content that they produce. Is it quality? Are they putting TLC into how they promote their show? Is their cover art looking good? Or do they do it on Microsoft Paint? Are they taking time to put accurate show descriptions and show titles in front of their audience? So when people find it, they know what they're going to experience when they listen? Does it sound good? Are they mic’d up properly is the overall production something you'd be proud to be a part of, these are all items to be focused on download numbers are irrelevant in that case, because when you lend your expertise to a show that is parallel with yours, or that runs parallel with what you're talking about and aligns with your message, that's going to give you great opportunities. Because if they're committed to their project, if they are looking to grow their show and continue to add constant to it, you're a part of that catalog. You're along for the ride now. And you always have that piece of content that you can point people back to do you had a great conversation like, Mickey, I can think of a few things already that you and I have talked about today. If I'm ever talking to a client or a prospect, I can say listen, I talked about this with Nikki on her show. Here's the link. Now I'm pointing new listeners to your show. That to me is building value in this whole process. And the download metrics are relevant to me, I look for quality, I look for consistency. And that's really what it comes down to. And any guest that thinks otherwise. Or any host that thinks otherwise. has to shift their mindset if they really want to succeed in this.
Mickey Anderson 38:07
I love that. And you know, one of the things that we know how many shows fall flat after a few episodes, the host gets discouraged or can't maintain it. And it's unfortunate that it's super unfortunate that you know, recently I was watching this Alex Hormozi video, like everyone's watching Alex Hormozi right now. And he was talking about how so many entrepreneurs are doing the right thing, just not enough of it. And I think in podcasts guesting and hosting as well. It's like you get started. You're doing the right thing. You just don't give it enough time.
Jason Cercone 38:34
Oh, God. Yeah, that's cool ahead. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to.
Mickey Anderson 38:37
Oh, no, it's. We just need to give ourselves time and have patience in the process. Right. Not expect the immediate magic bullet?
Jason Cercone 38:44
Yeah, there's, there's no question. This is a this is a marathon. This is not a sprint. I mean, again, you can get starry eyed when you see Joe Rogan making $110 million from Spotify. And that's great. Great for Joe Rogan. I also think about the fact that this dude was on a 20-year path with everything he did, and I'm sure his comedy career started out in front of 12 people at the VFW like so many people that got have gotten to his position did but why does that mean? So we come along? Why do we think we're just gonna get this instantaneous success without putting in the work without putting in the reps? It's a it's a wrong mindset. And it's something that is beyond podcast and because I think a lot of us, people see these highlight reels that get put out, and they Okay, that's attainable. I can do that. But they're not learning about the years of blood, sweat, tears sacrifice that went into reaching those points of success. And the line that I've beaten to death on my podcast where my listeners are probably like, he's saying it again. Here it comes. I love football. I could give a damn about the touchdown celebration. I care more about the 99-yard drive and all this struggle and all the shifts and moves and things you had to do along the way to get to that celebration, I'm going to learn from the way that you presented your, your path to getting to that result. That's how you grew. That's how I'll grow. spiking the ball means nothing. But again, in our world, we get fed all this success in 30 days, and you can have your podcast off the ground in a month. I know there are systems, but you can't fall prey to the shiny object syndrome. And you have to understand that even if you do find something that does help you get a podcast off the ground in 30 days, or get you on X amount of podcasts and a month, whatever the offer is, you got to build upon it, you got to be really willing to put in the work and the reps and the practice swings, that's going to build and develop it and keep it consistent. So more people pay attention to you. If you're fly by night, it's very easy to gloss over you and go to the next person. So yeah, falling into those shiny object traps will kill you derail your efforts before you ever have an opportunity to break through.
Mickey Anderson 41:03
I feel like I need to put like a motivational poster with your face on it right there. Just let's keep going right? Because it is we get so wrapped up in the speed and the after state right, like the success what it is, but we forget that it's all about the daily steps that we take the journey, right? Like it sounds cliche, but it is true. Now…
Jason Cercone 41:25
It’s cliché for a reason. Because it works. If it didn't work, we wouldn't be talking about it. So much and more of us need to continue to shout from the mountaintops. This is how why it works.
Mickey Anderson 41:35
Yes, yeah, we got to band together. There's only there's only a few of us.
Jason Cercone 41:39
I know we've really got to grow this tribe, Mickey, it's up to you and I let's do this.
Mickey Anderson 41:43
We've got this
Jason Cercone 41:44
We’ll rally some folks. We’ll have some fun.
Mickey Anderson 41:46
Oh, okay. Before I go on my soapbox, I wanted to talk about call to actions. Because I know a lot of guests, this is something that causes them a lot of stress. What do I say? Where do I move people? What should I do any advice for maybe new guesters who are not really sure how to nail the call to action?
Jason Cercone 42:05
Yeah, it comes down to simplifying it. And that's where you're gonna save yourself a lot of stress and get better results when you stop rattling off every internet destination you're a part of. And that's one of the biggest mistakes I hear. And it's heartbreaking in some respects. Because if somebody did a, just a kick ass job and really delivered amazing content, and then the host sets them up to where can we connect with you for more now all of a sudden, they're giving off 25 different destinations, every social media network, their AOL Instant Messenger handle, we're talking ICQ like they go nuts. And I might have dated myself big time there. I hope some people realize that a flashback, your little bird chirping for ICQ. Anyway. But when you do that, you gotta remember where your listener is, they're at the gym, on a walk in the car, they're not right next to a pen and paper or something where they're going to jot down all these things and then so they’re probably just going to zone out and then take no action. So if you just spent 45 minutes to an hour, bringing massive impact to somebody's world, but then not giving them a clear destination of where you want them to go next. It's a big mess. And it's going to cost you the opportunity, which really it just negates the whole 45 minutes to an hour that you just spent. So a clear call to action would be something as simple as you tee up that question for me, Mickey and I say, I appreciate the opportunity for being here today. Jump over to jasoncercone.com. I've got free resources that will enlighten you and teach you more about how podcasting works. I look forward to connecting with you there. That's one destination. And it's very easy to remember because in that case, it's my name. But the biggest piece of that is I own it, that's my real estate, I'm not sending you to Facebook or Instagram to where they could turn a dial tomorrow and crush my engagement or just sell the whole damn thing and then move to an island somewhere. Which you know, stockholders might be upset, but you get my point on panels that they send them to where you I mean, the for me, when we get to this point, I will send people to a landing page and I'll be very transparent here. Obviously, I've got some valuable info for you. It's gonna cost you your email address, he gives me an opportunity to continue to connect with you and provide value to you. And if you resonate with my message, you would want more of that right? You got it. Now I hit now I have more of an opportunity to have you in my orbit to share more about what we've talked about today. You saw the trailer. Now I'm going to show you the whole movie. And then maybe as we continue to move down the road, you'll want to buy the t-shirt or get the poster for your wall. It's all about taking people on a journey. And if your call to action isn't clear, you can't even get out of the parking lot.
Mickey Anderson 44:51
You know to reference some sports I think about it like in baseball base hits. Right I'm trying to get a Grand Slam and get you to buy a 30k offer right off the bat out of a pocket. All right, I need you to just take one step. What's the one step? That's it.
Jason Cercone 45:04
That's it. That's the other we get, again, it's getting fixated on the sales that we have to make. And I get it, we have to make sales. But it's a process, which speaks a lot to the consistency of doing this and using it as a lead generation tool, if you want to call it that. But bringing more people into your orbit through the interviews that you do, and the relationships you build, that's going to give you the opportunity to make those sales. But if you're trying to do it on the front end, you're going to turn people off, they're going to put their defense mechanism up, and they're going to run away because they aren't not, I want to say everybody, but the vast majority of people aren't looking to buy that day. It's the same things I said about LinkedIn, they didn't wake up that day thinking they're going to drop $15,000-$30,000 with you. But if you brought some impact into their world, you changed your perspective, you started to guide them towards a transformation that they want to experience. They'll take that next step, and they'll come into your world. And when they do that, as long as you're continuing to provide value and not going into sales mode, at that point, you have more opportunities to get those sales that you need. And then the snowball starts rolling downhill. And you can experience a lot of growth and a lot of success.
Mickey Anderson 46:17
Yes, now I am certain that we have people listening right now who are interested in starting to get on podcasts, get into this incredible world of opportunity. And I am certain that you can help them in that process. So where can they go to learn more about you and get started?
Jason Cercone 46:35
Well, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Twitter, I'm just a messenger, the best place to get started go to enhanceyourauthority.com, that's gonna land you on my website. And I have a free guide that I put together, it's called the absolute guide to authority, thought, excuse me, The Absolute Guide to Authority Enhancement. And really, it's a 10 to 15 pages, kind of remember how many pages I landed on. But it's all about what you can gain from being a valuable podcast guest. It's a great way to start building that foundation, learn a little bit about the fundamentals. And if you like what you see, you can set up a discovery call with me, and we can continue the conversation.
Mickey Anderson 47:13
I love it. And I will have all of the links in the description for the listeners, because I know how, if you're driving, you're probably not clicking on your phone. Well, I’ll make that accessible. Jason, this has just been such an amazing conversation. And I so appreciate both the energy but also the value you brought here. I know the listeners are probably have a list of stuff they're ready to take action on. But if we can sum up with one thing, the listener has one thing they need to start with one step they could take what would you tell them to do?
Jason Cercone 47:42
Commit? Yes, when you I mean, from the host side from the guest side. I mean, we're transcending podcasting, if you can't commit, your results are not going to be what they need to be you have to be in this for the long run. And understanding that you're going to probably make some mistakes and fall flat. And that's one thing I always say is working with me. We're going to flatten the learning curve to some degree, but you're still not going to not make mistakes. It's just part of life. But if you're willing to commit to being the very best you can be at this as trite as that may sound. It's going to make all the difference. And it's going to lead to a lot of long-term gains, and help your brand go, like I say from unknown to undeniable.
Mickey Anderson 48:27
Oh, that's so catchy. I love that. Ah, amazing. Jason, thank you so much.
Jason Cercone 48:32
Thank you, Mickey. As expected, this was a blast and I'll throw one more message to your listeners. If you haven't done so already. Jump over to Apple podcasts leave Mickey a five star review. I tried to leave her a six star but they only allow five. But she's doing a lot of work to put this content together for you. So the least you can do is thank her with a review and let her know how she's doing.
Mickey Anderson 48:51
Oh, thank you so much. Yes, please do. Thank you.
