Mickey Anderson_The Hustle Less Profit More Podcast_EP 24_Robert Lowdon_Full Audio podcast_JG_1-18-2023
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
business, people, images, success, complacent, creative, photography, feel, learn, point, picture, bit, marketing, photographer, project, artist, commercial photography, successful, find, life
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Mickey Anderson
Robert Lowdon
Robert 00:00
I think it just kind of always want to go further. And I don't mean it as a great thing. I think it's just like kind of want to see how far I can go. Like, we started doing more national work across Canada and a little bit with some US clients and stuff, too. And that's been a really big achievement for me lately.
Mickey 00:18 (Intro)
Most business owners and entrepreneurs are secretly sick of hustling. And if you are too, you're in the right place. Welcome to the hustle less profit more podcast with me, Mickey Anderson, where we're revolutionizing success. Because you should have it all. Business Success, lasting wealth, freedom, and fulfillment. Join me on this quest to uncover the keys to defining and achieving success on our terms. So we can all hustle less and profit more.
Mickey 00:57
Robert Lowdon is an internationally published commercial photographer. He specializes in industrial, architectural, and landscape photography with more than 10 years of experience running his business. He has 20 years of experience as a photographer. And today we talk about the challenges of entrepreneurship, the lessons learned along the way. And what looking through a different lens, pun intended, can do for you, your business, and your life. I hope you enjoy this episode.
Mickey 01:28
All right, well, you know, first and foremost, I have never had a photographer on the show. And I am always so intrigued by people who work in the arts of any kind. As a person who thought she was not creative or not artistic for a really long time—I'm always drawn to people who see the world a little bit differently than I do. And so I'm really excited to hear about your story and learn about the way that you've come to where you are. So, could you give the audience a little bit of a rundown on who you are? And how you got to where you are?
Robert 01:56
Yeah, for sure. Thank you. Well, my name is Robert, Robert Lowdon. I'm a commercial photographer. I'm originally from near Winnipeg, Manitoba, which is like a tiny town in Canada.
Mickey 02:06
Winterpeg.
Robert 02:08
Winterpeg. That's one of the nicer names for it.
Robert 02:16
Yeah, pretty sure.
Robert 02:19
Uh yeah, I'm a commercial photographer. So that means I basically work with really large companies and medium-sized companies. And we kind of create images for them to help them sell their products and services and get in front of more customers and be more effective, and I guess, essentially, kind of make more money and drive revenue.
Mickey 02:37
Yeah. And you've kind of led an unconventional path in terms of your business in your life. Can you talk to us a little bit about how you got yourself into commercial photography?
Robert 02:47
Yeah, for sure. I kind of got into photography, probably in my teenage years. And then I kind of never thought that it would be a career. And I just really kind of ended up at a point in my life where I was unhappy, and then just basically just decided that I'm going to try and went to school and realized, when I got out of school, there was no jobs for photographers, so I had to start a company. And I'm kind of like an entrepreneur by accident. Because I know a lot of people choose to start a business, I kind of feel like I had my hand forced a little in a good way. Right? Like, I'm happy about it. But yeah, so that's kind of like how I got started. I just started with websites. Started going after some of the clients I wanted, and just over time just kept building and building and building.
Mickey 03:32
Yeah, you're not alone and falling into business on accident. I know so many people who have a passion, and they love helping people. And they find that the only way that they can really make it viable is to start a business, or the only way that they can do it and the way that they want to do it is if they start a business. So you're not alone there. I would love to know about you know, how this kind of falling into your own business developed and how you kind of manage the uncertainty of running your own business compared to working for someone else?
Robert 04:05
Yeah, for sure. I think I'm just like stubborn. Like I just didn't have like a backup client. At that point. I was just, I just forced myself through it. And like to for me, like I started with absolutely nothing. When I started my business like I had no capital, no loans, nothing. And to say like those first years were challenging at times. Very, very challenging. I think there's just something in me or something that just made me do it. I like some. I think like there's times I probably wanted to quit or should have quit but I didn't. And just kept going and going and going and it's just kind of morphed into something. I'd like to take more credit for it. But I mean, maybe some of it's just luck. You know?
Mickey04:49
I can relate to that. For sure. Sometimes you wonder like was this destiny or was this just accident?
Robert 04:57
Yeah. And to further to that, like I always say to my wife like it's the only thing I'm good at. So I better do it right because I suck at everything else in life so...No, that's a joke. She says that's not true. But I think it is.
Mickey 05:09
it's funny that one of the things that I've noticed for myself at least in running a business is now I feel very unemployable. I've been my own boss and done my own thing for so long that the idea of working for someone else, just feels wrong. Do you feel the same way?
Robert 05:23
Yeah, I don't even know if I'm employable at this point in time. Yeah. Cuz it's been like 10 years for me now. Over 10 years now. So it's been, I don't even know. I don't know. It would be hard for me, I think to take orders from someone I don't know if I can do it. I don't know what.
Mickey 05:44
It's funny, you're running a business changes us. And the way that we see the world I find as well. One thing that I'm curious about, because I know, in as an artist, it's very hard to define what a successful piece is. And we all are very self-critical of ourselves, especially the things we create. And as an artist running a business, I feel as though there must be a lot of kind of criticism, judgment, looking upon yourself looking for mastery. And I'd love to know how you manage or deal with that, that self-criticism that comes both as an entrepreneur and as an artist.
Robert 06:21
Yeah, for sure. That's, that's a huge thing. That, to be honest, is something maybe I'm not the best at some days. And some days, I'm better at it. It's a trick, like, I'm tremendously hard on myself and everything I do, and in my work, and that, that propels you. But there is there's a downside to that, that's very, can be very difficult to learn how to deal with and I just want to be honest with it, because I think like a lot of people look at someone like in the career IMF, and think that it's just all this stuff's easy, and it just comes naturally. It doesn't it's gross, right? So every time you're growing, it's it's can be tremendously painful. And criticism can be like that, like, you know, it's a weird thing. Like, you'll get like 1000 great comments from people, which you get one you don't like that might be mediocre. And it's like, it can feel like devastating at times. But I think you just over time you just get a thicker skin and keep working and knowing your heart on it, just keep working at it, I guess. Yeah. But I mean, it's good. It's one of those things, it's like, balance is key. Criticism is good, because it makes you better. Because if you get complacent, like especially in this industry as fast as it's moved, in the 10 years, I've been professional at it. Even compared to the last like 20 years since I started doing photography seriously, we had like the start of the disappearance of film and professional completely. We had a mass exodus of professionals probably like 50%, maybe more. We're just completely left behind by that. So in our like, you can't be complacent at this at all. So it's tricky, because it's like, I feel like I'm rambling on about this, but I'm sorry. But you have to be cognizant, and you have to use that and let that drive you. But at the same time, you also got to be careful that it doesn't just like light your life on fire. Because they do that too and there's many artists who have some examples of that like maybe like a Van Gogh or a Caravaggio or something to that effect, too.
Mickey 08:11
Yeah. And you know what, I'm, I'm glad you mentioned that, because I think innately, every entrepreneur that I have met has been super self-critical and harsh on themselves, and oftentimes thinks that they're alone and that everyone else has it easy. And so I appreciate the honesty you brought to that because I think it's important for all of us to kind of have a little like a check on ourselves. Like, no, no, it's hard for everybody. But the other thing that I think is really interesting is you mentioned, you know, not being complacent. And the word innovation comes to mind. And especially in a creative industry, sometimes, from the outside, at least it seems like or it can look like you're in your own lane, you've got your own craft, and you master it and you just stay there. But I like that you mentioned that, you know, the shift from film into digital, because that truly does show that even in creative industries, and as an artist, and whatever your role is, you still have to be innovating and not allow yourself to be complacent. Do you personally, I'm always interested in this. Do you have any practices or things that you do to help you get into your kind of creative juices flowing? Or maybe I'm gonna step outside of your comfort zone?
Robert 09:17
Yeah, for sure. I think at this point, it's no longer I don't really have to work, do a warm-up or anything, it just kind of it's just become like old hat now. So it's at that point, but I think one of the things that I, really has worked for me, it's just like every project I do needs to be better than the last. And every client I work with no matter how small or it is a job that might just seem like maybe it's a couple hours today compared to like a month long project or something like that. It's every time I do it, I want to make it the best one I've ever done. And I think that that works because like that scale just keep like your measuring sticks just always moving because it's you can't get stuck being comfortable because it's just not the industry to do it. And just as an artist, like, I don't want to just be putting out something I'm not proud of every day, you know. And yeah, I guess that makes sense or whatever it's like being a cook, right? Like if you cook something that tastes good. And if that's the only thing you ever cook again, it's not gonna taste good anymore.
Mickey 10:21
I love that analogy. That's amazing. Yes, I think it's so true. And, you know, something you mentioned there with regards to creativity, especially is, now it comes natural to you. Now, you can just kind of step in without that warm-up. When you first started, did you find creativity came naturally to you? Or was it something you had to work at?
Robert 10:40
Something I had to work out? For sure. Yeah, I think, I don't know. Like, I not everyone agrees with me, like a lot of people say to me, like, Oh, you're so creative. And it must come easy to you. But like, I don't think being creative comes easy to anyone. And I think it's just something you do over time. And then it becomes more prevalent in what you do. Like, I think it's just like, It's an acquired skill over time. And I think the kids that start doing it sooner, the ones that become more creative in their life later on.
Mickey 11:08
I appreciate that, not just because I agree, I totally agree. I think creativity is more of a skill than it is like a character trait. But it also gives us hope. Right? For those of us who maybe don't feel super creative all the time, I think it reminds me at least that I have to just practice more.
Robert 11:25
I think so too. And also to like, just my opinion, but don't just think of arts as creativity, because you can be creative and whatever you do, like everything's like a fine art in its own way, whether it's recognized or not, like even the simplest things like communication is like a very complex art that very few people, me included don't do well. Right. So there's so many things like marketing, like so many things that are creative past it, like even just anything, I guess.
Mickey 11:54
Yeah. I think you're you know, I think you're onto something because we label things as being creative or not being creative. Or label people even. You're a creative and you're not. And I think that kind of opens us up to a different perspective to think anything can be creative, it's the way you approach it. Yeah. And that's something to like, I don't like that term creative. Because I think it's it's very, it pigeonholes people, I think everyone's a creative. I don't think what I do is more creative than someone who builds a house or someone who, you know, paints lines on a road, or I can't even think of anything, or… We shoot a lot of construction companies and construction projects, too, right? So there's, you know, that you see people building like skyscrapers with their hands and tools and things like that. And to think that I'm a creative and that person's not, it's just a ridiculous notion to me.
Mickey 12:44
It's funny, I love that, you know, one of the things you said was that you always want your next project to be better than the last. And I think most of us feel that way about our work. But it's tough, because there's how do you objectively measure, you know, your growth from one project to the next? And so I'm curious to know, when you're looking at whether a project is successful, or better than the last, what are the things you're looking at?
Robert 13:08
Probably quality of the work, I think, I think I'm always looking for, like, some hidden idea that I'm trying to find or convey or something. I don't know, I think like, a lot of my work is just very, like, I'm trying to convey something like, and I'm not even sure what it is, sometimes, I'm trying to get a message. It's almost like, here's the trouble with communication here. It's like, it's like a spark or something, there's something like something there. Like, I have this idea in my head about what I wanted, or what's unique about this thing, and it's like my job to kind of convey it. It's like, I don't know, like, I feel like every good photo has like some type of magic in it that connects with someone and it can change ideas, change people, anything like that. And that's kind of what I'm after every time. And I think like when I get that, like, I think that's when I know it's successful. I think like when the clients like floored or, you know, or just, I don't know, you just kind of, it's just a feeling, I guess, that's probably really hard to quantify. But it's something like when you do something, well, you kind of just know it. But then at the same time, I mean, that's fleeting, too, because it's like, what have you done this week? Right?
Mickey 14:17
You're only as good as your last picture, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, it's interesting, because I think sometimes we assume other people have, like, they have the answer. They know exactly what it is the thing. And so as an outsider, looking at someone like you, I would assume like oh, no, he's got it in the bag. He knew yesterday what he was doing, but I love the idea that you're in the thick of it, figuring it out and trying to carve it and find it and it's not like just an answer you already had.
Robert 14:49
Yeah, for sure. Like in the kind of like what we do is like our setup for most projects is we always have like our safety shots. We know exactly what those will be like that's what we're going to do. But I think like the real thing that people pay us for is the time after we do those safety shots is that when you're trying to push. You're trying to figure something out different or do something you haven't seen before. And, like I like to think like a lot of my work is, you don't see it everywhere. I know, there's probably similar things, but I'm always trying to push some envelope or do something the harder way that you know.
Mickey 15:32
It's yeah, I appreciate that. I think a lot of times we compare ourselves to others. And we get into that, oh, well, they did that. So I should do that kind of a game. Right? Yeah, we're trying to copy and mimic. But I like that. You've kind of defined successes as not doing the opposite of that, as well. I think a lot of us can learn from that.
Robert 15:40
Oh, thank you. That's great. Yeah, that's kind of what I tried to do. And I think kind of like, starting the business, living the life I do. I think, like most of it is, like, I try to just do the opposite of what most people do. And I think that's kind of success in business. Because there's so many, there's so many companies trying to do the same thing. Us too. Like, we're for sure. I'm a photographer. Like there's, there's thousands of us, right. But I think it's like trying to find something special you do and enjoy doing that different than what other people would do.
Mickey 16:12
Did you is this something that you learned later? Or is this something that you knew you wanted to pursue being different from the start?
Robert 16:18
I don't know, I think it's later I think I learned to embrace it. I think at the start, you're kind of wondering maybe why you're different or you're trying to be more like other people or trying to follow within the path. And I mean, there's still that for me to like, there's still like, societal pressures and things you think you need to follow. But I think like, almost every time I think it's proven that when I trust my gut on something and go on a path that I think that feels better and it's different than what I think I should do is when it's successful, and I think every time I tried to fit within a mold on something or it's not feeling right are the things that kind of I regret a little bit later.
Mickey 16:56
Sorry. That's my dog Hannibal.
Robert 17:01
I have two in the bedroom so. I get it.
Mickey 17:04
Never fails. I gotta edit that out. It's okay. Makes me laugh every time I have a podcast that UPS guy always drives right by and he loses it. Yeah, for like two minutes and then he’s fine. Oh, Hannibal and they all know him too. They stop and wave. Oh my gosh, I'm watching the truck driver go rounds. I'm just gonna wait till he goes by and the dog stops barking sorry.
Robert 17:32
It’s okay.
Mickey 17:33
It’s always a nice reality check break.
Robert 17:35
It’s okay, I liked that. I felt like some of them are too serious that like, I gonna be on all the time.
Mickey 17:42
Wait a second. Well, we can laugh and have a good time here. Yeah. My daughter hasn't come up been crazy yet. So it's all good.
Robert 17:49
I love to like when like since the pandemic started with everyone's working at home now it's like completely. It's completely acceptable to be on meetings and dogs come in or kids walk in or you know, husband goes and grabs a drink or something in the background. It's like, this is great. Like you don't have to live like a machine anymore.
Mickey 18:06 (ad)
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Mickey 18:45
It's hysterical. I was on a call a couple days ago and my husband had come in the day before and I was on a meeting but my camera was off and I was on mute. I was just listening. And so he came in and we were chatting, I was like, Don't worry. The next day, he assumed that I was also video off and on mute. And he just walked in and started talking at me while I was in the middle of a meeting that was like… And then he saw my screen it was like and ran. It was the funniest five minutes. I was like, alright, we learned a lesson there, didn't we? Never assume.
Mickey 19:14
Oh my goodness. Anyways, I, you know, one of the things that I've struggled with personally when it comes to running a business is that definition of success is you know, am I moving in the general direction of where I want to go and where do I even want to go in the first place? And since you kind of fell into business, maybe on accident, maybe it was divine intervention. You know, in terms of your goals as a business how are you measuring success or working towards something in your business?
Robert 19:44
Yeah, that's a tricky question because like I've seen before like that yardstick always kind of moves right. There was a time like 10 years ago where to just even be half to where I am now. I would have just been thrilled and like, well, this is great. That's it, but I think it just kind I always want to go further. And I don't mean it as a great thing. I think it's just I kind of want to see how far I can go. Like, we started doing more national work across Canada and a little bit with some US clients and stuff, too. And that's been a really big achievement for me lately. And then growing it past that. It's like, I'm trying to look forward to working like some worldwide projects and things like that. And I think that's kind of, for me is where it is. But as far as like, success, like I don't, I don't know, like, I don't feel like I'm terribly successful either at a point in time. Like people say you are, but then it's, you get there. And it's like, I don't know, it's weird. I don't know, do you have experience with that? Where it's kind of like.
Mickey 20:45
Yeah, you know, I think, for me, personally, I tried to detach from the outcome as much as possible, kind of similar to you where it's like, it's not about the things, or the numbers or the achievements, that's the way that I'm approaching them. And like, I want to see what I can do from a very, like positive intention. I have faith and trust in myself, and I'm excited to see what happens and learn from it. Not out of a fear of failure, fear of not living up to other people's expectations.
Mickey 21:15
And so for long-term goals for me, so say, like, 10-15 year goals, if I'm thinking like big picture. They're very much so like lifestyle, and kind of ambiguous, almost. And the shorter term, it's a little bit more objective. But I find when I'm thinking of that vision of what success looks like, it's very much like my family's happy, we live in a great place. Like, we're all connected, we have what we need, like, that's it. And I know a lot of people who struggle with that, who are like, no, like, I want to have this thing, this house, this car, as well. And, it's interesting always to learn the different ways that people look at success in their life and how they use it.
Robert 21:53
Yeah, that's, that's neat that you mentioned that, like, I agree on that, too. I think like, a lot of it is just like, feelings and freedom. But like, I think like freedom seems to be the number one thing of being successful to know that you're covered. And you can do whatever you want, go wherever you want. Like, for me, that seems like the ultimate goal. I think, for me, and I do know, there was definitely a point in the past where it kind of changed between looking at financials and more about, I guess, more about being excited about what you're doing or what the next project is. And I guess maybe that's the yardstick like, maybe it's the point where you don't have to worry about how you're going to eat and stuff.
Mickey 22:33
Yeah, like Maslow's hierarchy, right? The roof over your head, and you're pretty stable. Then you can start to flirt with the others.
Robert 22:45
Yeah, for sure.
Mickey 22:45
Oh, man, entrepreneurship is wild as it is.
Robert 22:49
Yeah.
Mickey 22:51
I'm curious to know of any like, if you could kind of give yourself a message, say like, go back 10 years to former you and give yourself either a message or say something to yourself, what would you tell yourself?
Robert 23:04
Be more patient, for sure. Be more patient. Calmer and understand things take time. Like, I feel like that's a lesson I always have to learn like, I'm still learning because I want to just like flip the switch and things to change or get better tomorrow. But a lot of like a lot of this stuff is just repeating the same thing over and over and over again and just mastering it over and over and little things over time. You're just that's that's what matters. I think in business more than anything is just doing the same like right things over time.
Mickey 22:35
I love that I'm gonna write that on my wall. I think that's so we all get in like the magic pill, right? Instant gratification, the big thing that's gonna change everything. But I love that idea of doing the little things or like, there's the word virtuosity, right. Doing the common uncommonly well. And that's kind of what I look for, or, or that kind of see that as.
Robert 24:03
Yeah.
Mickey 24:04
If you could give a message to other entrepreneurs who are maybe kind of back where you started, where they fell into business, and they're not really sure where they're at or what they should be doing. And they're just trying to figure out as they go, do you have a message or anything you would say to them?
Robert 24:17
I'd say and again, back to this, like it's a marathon, like, really understand that this is a marathon and plan for five years before you're, you're even close to where you want to be, and know that and just keep working away and working away at it. Nothing needs to happen overnight. You don't have to change your whole lifestyle. You don't have to. You don't have to do anything you don't want to like that's the thing like entrepreneurship and running businesses. Freedom and it's the only thing you can really do now for a living. Or you can be completely in charge of what you're doing. You can change it you can do anything you want and like there's no rules. Just what you want to do, like if it, if that for you starting out is you have to work two jobs and do a better start to get going to where you need to do that. And like when you see that person that seems to get successful out of nowhere, just know that, like, that's rare. And a lot of times it doesn't last. And just keep doing the same thing, I guess. Yeah, just do the right things and good things will happen.
Mickey 25:25
Yeah, it's so true. You know, sometimes we see these people and it looks from the outside, like they just hit instant success. And it was easy. And then like, you start to learn what it actually took to get to that place. And it is for me, it's always been mind-blowing to say, Oh, that wasn't instant at all. That was 15 years of hard work that look instant.
Robert 25:45
Yeah, I forget if someone said it, I forget. I have no idea who said this quote. But it's I'm still working on my 20 years of becoming an overnight success. It's almost always the case, right? It's always so always someone who's got 20 years in, but then all of a sudden, something happens. But…
Mickey 26:02
Yeah, I love that. That's amazing. Yeah. Were there any inspirations, any mentors, any people or figures that you looked up to? Or still do that kind of helped ground you or have helped you kind of get to where you are?
Robert 26:16
Not really sure. Probably my parents definitely helped. My wife, Megan, she's been fantastic and completely supportive of me. And then I think that's, that's probably about it, my brother. So he's been cool. Yeah, I don't know. Because I don't, I never really had it all figured out. And I think I still don't really have her figured it all out. And I think I just try things and some things work and some things don't. And then I just do more of the things that work.
Mickey 26:41
You know, that reminds me a lot of I'm not sure if this is true or not. But it's something I heard on the internet. So it must be true.
Mickey 26:48
Where, Ed Sheeran, at one point, deleted all of his social media apps and was stopped consuming other people's creativity, music and listening. Because when he was consuming, he wasn't creating, and it was influencing the way that he was creating. And I think that's kind of a good reminder, almost like, you can't always be consuming and looking to others for the answers and the inspiration, like you have to be able to find it within yourself.
Robert 27:12
For sure. And like I would share that sentiment too. Like I do have our social media on. I'm not that active on it. But for me, like I don't I don't consume other photographers' work. I don't even hardly look at it. I don't think I've really looked at stuff for five years, we'll get test photos or things or examples of clients and this and we'll look at those and stuff. But it gets to the point where yeah, like, I think you're better off not to because you'll start copying styles and think that's what you should do. And I think that's counterintuitive. So I think it's great. I mean, like social media can be very destructive to people. It can also be good. I guess it's just what you do with it.
Mickey 27:50
Yeah, it's like it. I feel like a lot of things are like that, where it all depends on the way that you use it. Right, like social media can be a place to connect with friends and get closer to other people. But it can also be really destructive. And I think knowing yourself plays a lot in that.
Robert 28:10
It's like the human. The human struggle, right, is moderation. Because it's always you go too far, not even condition.
Mickey 28:22
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm curious, because you mentioned your family being an important role in, you know, how you've gotten to where you are, in terms of running a business, and trying to balance life and family and whatnot. Are there any lessons or things that have helped you, you know, deal with? Or maybe not forget the importance of your relationships when you're trying to grow a business?
Robert 28:42
Yeah, I think like, I think one of the key things is just having the right partner is you know, like someone who's supportive and intuitive, and you can kind of carve out time to work together and things like that, like, my wife, Megan works with me now. So that's been, that's been great, because we can just see each other whenever we want. There's definitely been times where I've been away and traveling. And, you know, that's not always fun. But yeah, you got to, I don't know, like, I think like, my relationship is my second business. Right? It's actually my first business. Like, let's be honest, that's the most important one. And then the second one is the photography. And I think, yeah, like, keep your house in order, I guess, I would say, is a huge thing. Because you can be successful at other things, and very unsuccessful there. And yeah, and I think just try to do your best because sometimes you will need to put other time into the business, that kind of things, you miss things. And that's not always fun. But yeah, I guess, I guess balanced. What I'm trying to say. But understand it swings back and forth, I guess is what I would say.
Mickey 29:42
Yeah, in my experience has been very similar. Yeah, it's, there's ups and downs and back and forth. And it's like you're a team along for the ride and you do your best every day. And I think that that's really the key is you just don't stop working at it.
Robert 30:00
Yeah, I like what you said they're like, do your best every day? Because that's Yeah. I agree with that.
Mickey 30:05
Yeah. When we're talking about photography for businesses, because I'm sure there are some businesses listening, going, Oh, wait, commercial photography, What could this mean for my business? You know, I'd love to know about the impact of photography and how it can help different businesses.
Robert 30:23
Yeah, for sure. Like, I think photography is one of the best things that any business can invest in for the marketing. I'm obviously, like, a little biased on that. Because what I do, you know. If you sell like anything complex, or a service, that people just don't understand what it is, I think there's nothing going to work better than images for you. Videos are great. And like, we do a bit of video work too, or worked with other companies that do it too. But it doesn't have the, it doesn't grab attention as quick as you need it to. The pictures can communicate things faster than any other media form and be easily understandable by humans, because we're visual. So for any business, like if your communications or you, you're selling like a house or, you know, building a building, or working construction, or anything like that, like those photos will communicate with your potential customers better. And if you make them authentic, and they're well done, they're going to do a better job. Yeah. And that's just what I think about I think it's one of the most important things any business could do. Yeah. And I think I think it can be done badly, too. And it can have opposite effects. That's just my opinion on that too.
Mickey 31:35
Talk to me on that, because I know a lot of businesses right now are relying on a ton of really not great stock images to like get by, right. They think, oh, but they're, they're professional. But if it's free on the internet, and a million other people are using it. That's not having the impact that you think it is. But when we're looking at a, say a business is trying to understand what a good photo for their business is, what are the things they should be looking for, that can set them up for success when choosing or choosing photographs?
Robert 32:01
I think like authenticity is like one of the biggest ones we're seeing right now we're shooting a lot more projects of companies with their actual staff members doing things. And I think that's, that's been great. Like, we love doing that work. And you get to see, like the actual employees and like customers love that. Because they don't want to think that their mattress is just like some chemical thing made and who knows where like, they want to know that. Like, sorry, I'm going off on a tangent here. But like people buy from people they know and trust, right? So that's why we develop a brand so that we do create this brand so people can get to buy interest or no interest the brand. There we go. And photography helps build that brand. Really. That's what I'm saying. So yeah, I feel like I've done a terrible job explaining this, but…
Mickey 32:50
Oh, no, not at all. I you know, in marketing, we talk a lot about how images can support your brand, can build your brand and can also kind of wreck your brand. Because people in general want to do business with other people. Yeah, right. We're relationship driven. And we're human. And you don't get the same emotional response when reading an email compared to seeing a picture or reading about a product versus seeing a picture of the product or the person. So I really appreciate that. You. You spoke to that, because I think a lot of us forget that.
Robert 33:26
Yeah, for sure. And yeah, and like the most important pictures too are like, you know, like you said, like that authenticity and like stock is can be good. But it can also be very not good. It's tricky, because like we do sell a bit of stock too, right? But like the stock photos that are well like if you're here's an example, like if you're in Ottawa, and your business in Ottawa, a picture of Ottawa is good to have on your website. So get a stock photo of that. But don't say you build things locally. And here's a stock photo of another factory that 20 other factories have, right, because that's fake and people see through that and won’t trust you.
Mickey 34:06
Yeah, so it's like understand the intent of the image or the reason you're using an image in general, and then choose.
Robert 34:112
Yeah, yeah.
Mickey 34:14
So for those of us who are looking to find a photographer, and choose the right one, to help us not just figure out what makes us authentic, but also like, clearly communicate that to our potential buyers. What are we looking for?
Robert 34:27
I think you should like the style of images, not thinking that someone's pigeonhole to what they've already shot. But I think you should like, what they're conveying the messages to your liking, are they? Do they fit with the style of your brand and what you want to portray? I think that's huge. I think after that you should talk to them. I think they should understand your project. I think one of the reasons I think we get a lot of projects is because we're just like really excited with the projects we get. And I think if like the person's not excited to do your project, I think you should run away. Because if you. But you know what I mean? Like we've all had that buying experience, we're excited to go get something and then we get like this grumbly response or something. And it's like it spoils it, right? Because it's supposed to be special, like, I want to be special, I'm hiring someone, I want to feel good about it. Right? I think that's huge. And I think another thing too, is, like, really get someone that's willing to stand behind the work that they produce. And I think that's not overly done as well in arts as I think it should be. But if someone's not willing to put their name on it, or they're not willing to back it up, or, you know, put a guarantee on it, I think that's, I think that's a red flag. So I think hire someone who does good work, and has a good track record and stand behind what they do. And I think, like, most times, it should work.
Mickey 35:42
Yeah, you know, I like that you mentioned talking to the photographer as well, because I know a lot of people who have hired wedding photographers based off of their websites and their pretty images. And then the photographer showed up to the wedding. And the experience just didn't meet their expectations, right. And it wasn't because the images weren't beautiful, but it was personality conflicts or energy, or you know, and that's a big part in the way that we show up and are expressed to our pictures too. Right? Like, if you want your authenticity to shine in a picture, you got to feel good, right in the moment. And if you have a relationship conflict, or you've chosen a person who's not, you just don't align with that. That's really tough. So I appreciate that. You mentioned that because I know a lot of people who haven't done that, and it's bitten them. For sure.
Robert 36:27
Yeah, it's funny, too. You mentioned that because like, as a photographer, you kind of have to be a bit of a performer at times to like, if I need someone to be serious, like I gotta like, drop my mood, and I gotta get like, yeah, like, seriously, it sounds weird. It's so strange. But like, if I want, like, look tough in this photo, then I gotta kind of drop my mood and be a little more gruff, sometimes nothing bad. But what if I need them to smile and be happy and jovial like I need to start getting animated? And, you know, and control that? And? Yeah, that's, that's really crucial in this business, too. And, yeah, you know.
Mickey 37:00
I think that's actually a really great note, because I think many of us forget that we have to take responsibility for the energy we bring into the room, regardless of our industry, right? So if you're a consultant, or if you're a physician, or wherever you're working, like, you impacted the other person's mood. Right? Like, that's just the nature of it. And if you want them to be excitable, and to get into it, like you got to be into it, too. So I like that reminder for all of us. It's good.
Robert 37:25
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And like, funny note, like, if you're that miserable at what you do, like, do something else. It's a big part of your life like,
Mickey 37:40
Oh, man, that is also a good reminder.
Robert 37:45
I just think, I don't know.
Mickey 37:50
It's true, though. It's true. Like you meet those people. And you're like, you should have quit 10 years ago. Like, yeah. It's,
Mickey 37:55
I think it's another reminder to be grateful. If you are happy and you enjoy your work, like, take that moment and recognize how lucky you are. Let's have that.
Robert 38:06
Yeah, yeah, it's huge. And try to find a way to do it, too. Like, it's, you know, like, I come from a small town. So like, I feel like I've ran into that mentality, my whole life where you just work a job that you hate, and you stay there forever. And like, it's just a poor way to live your life. Like, if success is happiness, then that's not the key to success. Try 100 Other things if you fail at 99. And one works, at least one worked right? Like, or at least you tried, like, at least I don't know, that scares me. Like, that's my greatest fear in life is to just sit back and say, Well, like I never tried anything, or I didn't give it my all because that's that's a waste like that. wasting a gift you were given if you never try. That's just my opinion. Sorry, I went off on that.
Mickey 38:52
No, I love that. I think it's, I completely agree. Right? I think all of us have a little bit of a responsibility to ourselves, to try and to go for it. Right, whatever it is for you. Yeah.
Mickey 39:06
For any of our listeners who are like, okay, you know what, I get it, I need to show up authentically in my pictures. I need to get my team out there and connecting with people. Where can they connect with you to learn more about your photography and your business?
Robert 39:17
For sure, like, easiest way is my website. So it's just my name. So it's Robert. R O B E R T. Lowdon. L O W D O N.com. And we do have the social media channels even though I said I didn't do too much of them
Mickey 39:32
I’ll link that in the description for you.
Robert 39:35
Yeah, there there. You can just Google me I tend to show up all over the place.
Mickey 39:38
And your images are just spectacular. I was telling you before when we were recording just that was one of the things that made me so deeply want to talk with you was just looking at your images and your headshot and seeing how much emotion came through in those pictures just completely inspired me. I found it really, really amazing.
Robert 39:55
That's awesome. Thank you.
Mickey 39:36
Yeah. Well, thank you so much. This was just a wonderful conversation. I think it's, we all need those reminders to like, just keep going. Right? Keep trying keep working, trying to just make everyday a little bit better. And the reminder that all of us are going through it together, right?
Robert 40:11
Yeah.
Mickey 40:12
Instant success. So I so appreciate the conversation and the time.
Robert 40:16
Yeah, me too. Thanks for having me.
Mickey 40:23 (Outro)
Thank you for joining me in another episode of the Hustle Less Profit More podcast. Thanks to our season one sponsor Stere Pursuit, Marketing and Communications. You can find show notes and resources at hustlelessprofitmorepodcast.com. If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to rate and review us where you get your podcasts. Join us again next time to uncover more of the keys to achieving success, wealth, fulfillment and freedom. Thanks for listening.
