Chandler Walker - Podcast
[00:00:00] Chandler Walker: We want to understand the values associated with the way people say, there's an external statement. AKA, I want to lose weight, AKA. I want to get leads, but there's also an internal belief associated with that, which is much deeper. And so. Call that the pain, but that's not enough.
[00:00:13] So if someone says I want to lose weight, what's the internal issue. Well, insecurity. I don't look good in a bikini. I feel disgusting. Other people's words, when I'm in public, I don't want us my significant other, I don't want them to see me naked, whatever leads I want leads. It's not leads.
[00:00:27] It's I can't pay my mortgage. And I feel like my family is going to be homeless. So then. Now that I recognize what the internal internal belief is, core belief. What I need to do is I need to connect the dots to the past and understand the patterns of behavior that have led them to be in the position they're in, because those are the triggers that we need to work to solve.
[00:00:45] And that's why people are unsuccessful. It's not because they've done diet. It's because they were forced to eat their whole plate as a kid. And now they have a pattern of overeating. It's not that people can't get leads it's because they've hired 87 different consultants and they don't know what their own KPIs are.
[00:01:34] Mickey Anderson: No one wants to be sold, but we all need to sell. I asked Chandler Walker, an entrepreneur and sales expert who went from getting a degree in biochemistry on a medical track to building a brick and mortar wellness business. Whether sales need to be aggressive and manipulative. After scaling his business to seven figures and performing over 3000 sales calls, Chandler completely redefined sales and built a therapeutic driven psychologically based sales system centered around compassion and care.
[00:02:09] He's now taught over 3000 people, his sales system, and graciously shared it with us today. As he teaches us that you can be a great sales person and you can do it ethically. Here's my conversation with chandler walker
[00:02:22] Tell us a bit about your story, um, from where you started to where you are now.
[00:02:27] Chandler Walker: Yeah, that's a good question.
[00:02:28] And thanks for having me on, I'm excited to be here and really talk about how we can make sales less slimy and how we can make entrepreneurs. Maybe just a little more healthy. So what, when I started, we have to go way back to my childhood because when I grew up, I grew up with a mother who suffered to provide polar disorder.
[00:02:44] And back then, if you said you had a mental health issue, disorder problem, et cetera, it was, there's nothing wrong with you. Put a smile on your face and think happy thoughts. And so it wasn't really. In today's environment where you can go get help. And there's a lot of, there's a lot of resources, but there's still not a lot of availability, but back then there was nothing.
[00:03:03] So she kind of had to struggle and suffer and she had really high highs and really low lows. And I had to learn as a kid, how to communicate from a way to where it was neutral. And so I had to learn how to communicate, not from a place of anger or frustration, because I learned that she was suffering from something.
[00:03:19] And if I was going to communicate with her. In anger, it would match anger and it would create problems. So it taught me how to communicate in a neutral way. And it also taught me how to communicate, work people through different emotions and how to read and understand emotions. There's a pretty big deal for a young kid to have to learn and really design and understand.
[00:03:37] And so ultimately we didn't really figure out what was going on with her and, and how to help her until my twenties, which was a long time, quite a bit later. And that led me into a med school route. And so in college I studied biochemistry and molecular biology. I got deep in microbiology and immunology, and I ultimately wanted to go on this path of healing.
[00:03:55] And there was a big problem though, because as I started going through this, this medical system, and as I started precepting, and as I started sitting there looking at patients, I kind of recognized that. It wasn't really helping people. It was providing medication for a living and this it's not a shot at doctors.
[00:04:13] This is the system. We have a system designed to help people who are sick and essentially put a bandaid on the problem. Because if we tell someone to eat an apple, we can't follow through with that. And ultimately this led me to feel pretty disenfranchised by the whole, the whole process. And I broke off and opened up a brick and mortar that was devoted to six pillars of wellness.
[00:04:33] Mickey Anderson: Just the idea of building a business around these pillars of wellness feels a little bit revolutionary, right? Most of us build businesses around profit and expenses and whatnot, but, uh, but I'd love to know more about what those six pillars are and why you chose.
[00:04:48] Chandler Walker: Yeah, that's a good question. So basically what I did was we worked with a lot of clients in the health side of things, and a lot of them were business owners and I started paying attention to myself as well. And I recognized that there was six key areas and now I've added, there's a seventh area we've added, but we recognize that there's seven areas.
[00:05:04] And so I started looking at, okay, what is the most important area of wellness that we need to focus on? First, if someone doesn't do this. They will fail it, everything else. And so the first one was mental health. If someone walked in defeated, if someone walked in and didn't feel good about themselves, if someone was already burnt out and broken, nothing else was going to help.
[00:05:22] So our first goal was to tackle mental health. Then. Okay. What's number two. What's the next most important piece. And that became social health. Because if you're in an environment where you're lonely, it's going to impact your mental health. If you're an environment where people tell you, you're not good enough, you're going to fail.
[00:05:37] You're never going to make it. It's going to impact your mental health. And you're probably going to quit because you're going to believe what other people say. It's the idea of inception in the mind. So we have to be able to tackle and cover. Then the third piece I looked at was sleep. If you look at the entrepreneurial paradox, it's characterized by ridiculous amounts of lack of sleep.
[00:05:55] And I, I usually think it's because of these influencers who say we need to hustle and grind, and I call that the hustle and pray strategy. You can hustle and pray you'll make it, but you probably won't because you'll burn out and fall apart before that happens. So sleep. Piece. And then the next one that I've squeezed in now is wealth.
[00:06:12] And the reason I added wealth as a pillar was because I recognized that if entrepreneur, the entrepreneurial, the next entrepreneurial paradox is entrepreneurs don't pay themselves. Originally. They'll usually sacrifice everything for the business. But that's not okay. There's no reason that we should take the stress and the pressure to build this thing and pay everyone else and not pay ourselves appropriately.
[00:06:32] And so wealth is designed to create not just a strategy of accumulating wealth, but compounding on wealth in the market and everything. So you can remove the stress of money and finances. And then the last two pillars, we look at our nutrition. You have to fuel yourself to be able to perform and perform well and fitness, fitness, and the most important piece for a fitness for me is bone density.
[00:06:51] If you want to live a long time, Actually do workouts. So you have high levels of bone density and you won't die early. And ultimately, yeah, and ultimately this whole thing gets characterized by habits. So all of it comes together to create habits that we can accomplish longterm. So when
[00:07:09] Mickey Anderson: you're working through this, um, with someone new.
[00:07:13] Do you present them one at a time and slowly work them through the process? Are they presented all of them at once and choose where they go? How does that work for the client?
[00:07:22] Chandler Walker: Yeah. So the way that we figured out how to make it work is if you do one at a time, it's going to take like 14 years to figure it all out.
[00:07:28] So what we do is we break it all up into micro habits. And what happens is each week there's a micro segment of mental health to accomplish a micro segment of social health, micro segment of sleep and a little micro segment of each piece. So each week. What you're doing is you're stacking on top of a previous segment and you're creating what we call micro habits.
[00:07:47] And those micro habits continue to compound. And ultimately at the end, what happens is you create what I call unconscious competence, which means you can do it without thinking about it. And when you think about unconscious competence, it's the same thing as breathing. I can breathe without thinking about it.
[00:08:01] And so I want to make this process as easy as breathing. So it's not a miserable thing that people have to work to make. Uh,
[00:08:09] Mickey Anderson: when we think about the entrepreneur, maybe the startup who's running their own business, and they're, they're recognizing that their wellness is being negatively impacted by the way they run their business.
[00:08:18] And they're like, okay, this sounds right. I need to start looking at all the different components of my. Um, to help me feel better. And it seems pretty obvious that working on those things is going to help me as an individual step into a better version of myself. But when we think of how these things can impact a business at its core, can you tell me a little bit more about that?
[00:08:38] Chandler Walker: Yeah. Typically what happens with entrepreneurs, especially people in the solar preneur realm is. If they have personal problems, those personal problems become business problems. And then those business problems that are small in the beginning to become really big problems down the road. So if you are scattered, if you don't have the ability to organize what you're doing on a daily basis, if you're all over the place, if you're feeling overwhelmed, your business is going to look overwhelmed.
[00:09:01] Your business is going to look scattered. And ultimately you're going to build something that reflects the personality of the owner who was originally built the business. Wow.
[00:09:09] Mickey Anderson: I just had like a, an envision in my head of businesses. I know that a hundred percent reflect the owner, their personality and their state that's mindblowing.
[00:09:19] Chandler Walker: It's crazy. Isn't it? You're like, it's literally the owner, that's
[00:09:22] Mickey Anderson: it. And most of us see ourselves in this light where we're our best selves and our business reflects the best version of ourselves. But the truth is the business is going to reflect you as you are not as some idealistic. Uh, you know, not real version and so that it makes perfect sense that we need to step into it now and not delay.
[00:09:41] Chandler Walker: Yeah, exactly. And when you think about it, it's like the business becomes what the owner is. So the owner is not only has to create the vision and that vision is communicated through the spoken word and communicated through the actions that the owner is currently taking or taking daily. No not taking exactly.
[00:09:59] Mickey Anderson: So if I were to ask you for some examples of maybe a micro habit that we could start on this path in maybe mental wellness for an entrepreneur, what's something that we could kind of start dipping our toe in to, to impact our mental wellness in a positive.
[00:10:13] Chandler Walker: Yeah. The first thing that I think that we that's important and that we look at is understanding your beliefs versus your values.
[00:10:19] And I think entrepreneurs really get stuck here. So this is the first exercise exercise that we go through together with, with entrepreneurs. And what we do is we outline what their beliefs are. So what's your belief behind who you personally, family spirituality work, all that stuff. So there's tend to revalues we look at, and they have to rate how important that is to them one through 10.
[00:10:39] And then the next thing we look at is. Are you living up to those values? And so now they have to rate whether or not they're living up to those values on a one through 10. And what happens here is we have this mind blowing shock of awareness of this is what I believe in, but I'm not living up even close to this.
[00:10:53] And you'll see an entrepreneur who is a parent families attend in their, in what they want it to be. But because their life is devoted to their business families right now is living up to them as a two. And so you create these massive amounts of awareness from this. Wow. And
[00:11:08] Mickey Anderson: like, as a parent, myself and a business owner, I can so like, feel this early, how impactful something like that could be to me to say like, yes, my, my family is absolutely a 10, but when I look at my day to day, Oh man, I got room to grow.
[00:11:26] Chandler Walker: Exactly. Uh,
[00:11:28] Mickey Anderson: so once we figured out where we stand, where we want to be and where we are right now, how do we start taking those steps towards getting there, to being that ideal version of ourselves or living that ideal?
[00:11:41] Chandler Walker: Yeah, that's a good question. So what we do next is we want to look at how we can map out our day.
[00:11:45] And the first thing I'll usually do with entrepreneurs is we'll build a structure. I call red light, yellow, light green light. And so what this does is it organizes your thoughts and mind into what you can accomplish daily, red, light tasks or tasks that you have to accomplish that are critical. We're yellow, lighter, they're moderately critical.
[00:12:02] And then Greenlight tasks. We want an executive assistant or a virtual assistant to accomplish. So what happens is we remove 70% of the tasks you shouldn't be doing typically. And you only work on the tasks that are important to you as like a CEO or a high level person. And the cool thing about this is once you finish your red tab, You just don't do anything the rest of the day or you, and then you move to the next day.
[00:12:24] And if there's more red tests, finish those, then work on the yellow, but you don't give yourself more work and you don't keep stacking yourself. And then what happens in this environment is all of a sudden you become less overwhelmed. All of a sudden you become less, less focused on this laser, that being in the weeds and you become more focused on being high level and creative, and you build a massive amount of time.
[00:12:44] Now that's available. So now you can give your time back to the things you do believe in.
[00:12:48] Mickey Anderson: Yeah, that reminds me a lot of a conversation that I have with clients all the time. It's the importance of that white space, that time, where you're not actively doing something and how having that like blank free time actually makes you better when you are doing.
[00:13:03] Chandler Walker: Exactly. We have this concept. I call thinking time, your responsibility is to set a 15 minute timer and you sit there and think, or you just stare at the wall and don't think, but you can't do anything else. Yeah.
[00:13:14] Mickey Anderson: And I, I know how slippery the slope is. Once you've checked off the important things on your to-do list to want to add more, but I can see how building back in that buffer time can really transform.
[00:13:25] Uh, person end the way that they perform those tasks, right? Like the principal I'd love to think about is the Pareto principle where 80% of our results come from 20% of our efforts. And if we're giving our all in those 20% and taking the time to make sure that we're able to give a hundred percent, that like the transformation is why.
[00:13:46] Chandler Walker: Exactly. All of a sudden you can perform your creative. You can create the vision and you're not stuck in the weeds anymore. So you have this opportunity to really build what it looks like, your baby, and now it becomes this thing that's actually functional. That actually works. That has a vision that people want to fall in line with.
[00:14:03] Mickey Anderson: How did you fall into sales after pursuing wellness and, um, structuring your business this way. And all of a sudden becoming this kind of new prophet of sales and ethical.
[00:14:17] Chandler Walker: Yeah. So basically what happened was we had the brick and mortar and we were able to shift that online.
[00:14:22] And, but during the whole process, I did all the sales by myself in the beginning. So I did, I think it was like three or 4,000 sales conversations, maybe more at this point. And ultimately what I recognized was in the beginning, when we first started selling, I was able to sell it fairly effectively. I didn't know why, but I thought that I could get better.
[00:14:39] So I started hiring coaches, which is what we all should probably do at some point. The problem was though I would hire these sales coaches and they'd be like, I still remember a conversation with one of the coaches. I was like, I'm getting into a slump. I don't know what's going on. And he looked at me.
[00:14:52] He was like, you just gotta be more aggressive. You just got to pull it out of them. You got to get these people to make the decision. If they don't cry, they're not going to buy. And I was, I thought to myself at that moment, I was like, so. I opened this wellness business to help people, but now I'm manipulating people to help them.
[00:15:12] I feel like I'm living a lie. I feel like I'm this bully or this bait and switch tactician. Doing this kind of stuff. And that was really a crisis moment for me, because honestly, with how I am, I'd rather shut the business down than have that be the philosophy, because what you see is you see refund rates start getting higher.
[00:15:29] You see people make a decision they didn't want to make. And so what I did was I just scrapped all of it. And because I have the background in science, I typically get a little bit obsessive about things. And so what happened was I took the scientific method and I said, okay, what was I doing before I hired all these coaches?
[00:15:45] What did my system look like? Let's take a look at the mental health curriculum we have in the social health curriculum. And let's use those components to create a sales system that's based on a psychotherapeutic conversation. And so inside of our mental health curriculum, we have the components of cognitive behavioral therapy, acceptance commitment therapy.
[00:16:02] We have motivational interviewing and a bunch of other different psychology-based techniques. And so I took that and I moved it and I started putting that kind of stuff into my sales process. And also what I was looking at was okay. I had this ability to communicate from my mother when I was a kid and I moved that into the sales process.
[00:16:20] And so it created this system to where we learned, I learned how to sell without manipulation, aggressive tactics or feeling salesy. And it was based on real psychology. Oh.
[00:16:30] Mickey Anderson: As, as a counseling psychology student, it rings true. And I can so see how those skills you learned in basically like a counseling conversation where you're a neutral party.
[00:16:43] There too, to just hold space for someone and how most of us are missing that in our life. And so in the moment where I'm taking a risk, I'm putting money on the table, I'm doing something new or potentially scary how having that safe space could help transform the conversation and ultimately the results from it.
[00:17:04] Chandler Walker: Exactly. And ultimately what I kind of discovered from it was. If I tell someone to buy it, they're going to doubt it. It's like in a psychology, it's like in a session, a counseling session. If I tell someone there's something wrong with them, they're not going to believe it. I'm a jerk now. So what I need to do is I need to ask them strategic questions to find what's really going on to take the external belief, move into what the internal issue is, and then get them to say, I want it, or I need it.
[00:17:30] Or this is for me, or this is the problem, because if they say it now, it's real.
[00:17:34] Mickey Anderson: One of the key things that we're told in sales is to identify pain points and use those as leverage, to get people to say, yes, You said it's an incomplete strategy. Can you tell me more about that?
[00:17:47] Chandler Walker: Yeah, that's, that's a good question. So basically what, what I look at is a lot of sales trainers teach you, okay.
[00:17:51] Find the pain and then stab them with a knife and twist it and just keep twisting it. So you get this bag of tears who will make a decision. And for me, if you get someone to that point, they're going to make a decision that isn't the right decision. It's not a logical decision for them. It's an emotional decision in the moment and that becomes a refund request.
[00:18:08] And so for me, what I want to do is we want to understand the, the values associated with the way people say, there's an external statement. AKA, I want to lose weight, AKA. I want to get leads, but there's an, also an internal belief associated with that, which is much deeper. And so. Call that the pain, but that's not enough.
[00:18:25] So if someone says I want to lose weight, what's the internal issue. Well, insecurity. I don't look good in a bikini. I feel disgusting. Other people's words when I'm in public, I don't want us my significant other, I don't want them to see me naked, whatever leads I want leads. It's not re it's not leads.
[00:18:39] It's I can't pay my mortgage. And I feel like my family is going to be homeless. So then. Now that I recognize what the internal internal belief is, core belief. What I need to do is I need to connect the dots to the past and understand the patterns of behavior that have led them to be in the position they're in, because those are the triggers that we need to work to solve.
[00:18:58] And that's why people are unsuccessful. It's not because they've done diet. It's because they were forced to eat their whole plate as a kid. And now they have a pattern of overeating. It's not that people can't get leads it's because they've hired 87 different consultants and they don't know what their own KPIs are.
[00:19:12] And so once we help people understand by connecting the dots, what the patterns of behavior are over time, they shift their belief philosophy from it's this to wow, it's this and I had no idea because people don't think in that environment. And people aren't in these therapeutic conversations, people don't ever have anyone outline and design what their core beliefs or core philosophies are or what the triggers over time are.
[00:19:32] And so it creates this cosmic shift in the way they think of that.
[00:19:36] Mickey Anderson: You know, and I've seen so many sales conversations where it is the sales person throwing out benefits, throwing out features, throwing on discounts, talking and talking and talking. And just the idea of leading a question led open conversation with a person to help them recognize is this the right decision for me and why feels so revolutionary?
[00:19:58] And I, I love that. For business owners, maybe who are sales averse, or have had kind of nasty or seen the, you know, seventies, car salesman tactics used. And they're like, no, I'm just not going to sell. If people want what I have, they'll come and buy it. What would you say to them?
[00:20:15] Chandler Walker: Yeah, I'd say, well, one of the most important things to recognize in your business is even if you don't like sales, you're in sales.
[00:20:22] People if they like your product. Yeah. They'll probably buy it, but they're probably not going to come to you and buy it just because they want to, people love to buy, but they don't like being sold. So we have to play this sort of game with people.
[00:20:34] Mickey Anderson: I want to repeat that one more time. Cause that was so crucial. Can you repeat it again?
[00:20:38] Chandler Walker: Yeah. People love to buy, but they don't like being sold.
[00:20:41] Mickey Anderson: Ah, that is so good. Yes. Sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off.
[00:20:44] Chandler Walker: Yeah, no worries. So basically what you have to recognize. Number one, we have to remove the idea of sales being a dirty word. And so, and we have to move into the idea that sales is service.
[00:20:54] And so one of my tenants in this is detaching from the need to sell. So when you go into a conversation, we need to remove this philosophy that we need to make the, uh, per the person needs to buy today. We need to remove this philosophy that we need to immediately talk about features and benefits and talked about money and install this philosophy that we can achieve.
[00:21:11] Tenet of level five, listening. Your only responsibility is to ask questions with the purpose, to create intent, to understand what the internal belief is to connect the dots, to create triggers. So this person can make their own decision. And it sounds complicated, but all you have to do is ask. And you have to listen, you say three words, the whole conversation.
[00:21:30] Mickey Anderson: Wow. Wow.
[00:21:32] And so when we think of this new style of conversation, this new style of sales in this, because obviously sales kind of came naturally to you, right? Like you develop skills as a child over your life and with the scientific method and all of your experience kind of naturally became good at sales. For those of us who maybe aren't naturally great at sales, is this something we can actually learn?
[00:21:54] Chandler Walker: Yeah, absolutely. And the cool thing about this system is it's I think introverts do a lot better with it. People who don't really like to talk because you don't have to talk. And for me, the conversation I teach people, I'm like, look, there's no reason to talk.
[00:22:05] Just mute yourself. Someone says, I want to, I need to get, I want to buy this thing. Okay, cool. Well, tell me a little bit about why you want to buy it. I'm just asking questions. Oh, because I need this and that and this. Oh, okay. Cool. Well, what makes this important? Oh, because of this, it that's all I have to do.
[00:22:21] And then the person's going to sell themselves on to why they need it the entire time. And I don't have to say very much. I just ask questions based on questions. I have this philosophy, it's a few steps. It goes, you stroke their ego and validate their concern. Yeah, that's an interesting question. Tell me a little bit more about that.
[00:22:35] Reverse with the question and then just keep doing it. And so it's like this looping PA looping feedback pattern to where you go in turn from external belief. Internal desire or whatever it is that's going on with them. And it's just simple questions. And that's why I think introverts do better because what happens is extroverts need to talk the whole time.
[00:22:52] If there's silence are really uncomfortable with it and they need to close that silence, introverts can ask questions. And just sit there and listen. And that's, what's important because silence is your biggest and most important weapon. People don't like silence. They don't want that gap. I do, because I want people to sit there and think, and I want them to be in their own feelings and I don't want to influence it.
[00:23:14] an in counseling, right? We have the, the nonjudgmental listening cycle where we, we ask, we reflect what the person says. We validate their feelings and we continue to allow them to tell the story. But the second side of that, I think more so is silence as a tool because in counseling we learn like silence is a powerful tool that you can use.
[00:23:34] People will talk, but also people will start to listen to themselves talk and, and you've now taken the onus of sales from the salesperson onto the. And I think that is very empowering. It definitely just thinking of it in that way. It makes me feel less pressured to have to speak or push.
[00:23:52] Yeah, exactly.
[00:23:52] And it changes the whole game because now, like I said earlier, they're going to start saying it. So, so they'll believe it. And then what happens is when we get to the pitch, it's not even about. Features and benefits it's about, Hey, because you said this, I think this is going to make sense, because you said that this will probably make sense, because you said this let's do this.
[00:24:10] How does that sound? Oh yeah, that, that sounds great. Wait, why do, why do you think it sounds great. Why would you even want to buy this? So I want to question them and continue questioning them. And then at the end of the sales conversation, people find this hilarious, but people to say, okay, well, can I, can I buy this thing?
[00:24:25] Or I'll say, that's all I've got for you today. What do you want to do now? They're like, can, can I. By this thing that depends. I mean, is this something you think you really want? And they're like, for the love of God, this guy is dumb. Just let me buy this thing. And so it changes the whole game. I don't have to do anything.
[00:24:42] And I act, I look like this bumbling idiot, but it's because it's that way by design. I don't want to be this pushy salesman. I want them to make that decision.
[00:24:51] I that is, I can so see how a business owner who maybe has been sales averse, just recognizing like my goal is, is not to sell them it's for them to sell themselves, uh, and allow them to open.
[00:25:05] Like want to push me to let them buy it. Like, that feels huge. What a powerful change in the whole process of
[00:25:12] sales. Yeah. It's an empowering decision because then when they make that decision, it's no more buyers or more, so they feel pumped about it and they're excited and they want to do it. And they're like, I can't wait for this.
[00:25:21] I cried after we talked. And I'm so excited and that's the conversations you get versus, Hey, I bought this thing and I'm just not sure. Um,
[00:25:28] Mickey Anderson: yeah. Yeah. I was convinced by someone else instead of convinced them. Exactly. Yeah. So for those of us who want to start getting better at sales and maybe tackling this process, what's something we can start practicing or doing to get
[00:25:41] Chandler Walker: better.
[00:25:42] Yeah. So what I would do is find anybody who will listen to you. So start doing role-plays with family, with friends, with anybody who will sit there and listen to you. And all you're going to do is ask them questions. And so just follow the validate stroke. There you go. Validate their concern, reverse with the question and then relay it back to them.
[00:26:02] And so they'll say, you'll say, Hey, what's going on in your life? The person says, well, I'm just, I'm just really busy and I'm running around 24. Okay. That makes sense. I mean, I'm busy too. It's it's hard being busy. What makes you so busy? Why do you think you're running around 24 7? Oh, because of this and that, and this gotcha.
[00:26:20] Totally makes sense. That that would cause you to do this. And so what do you think that means for you over here? All you have to do is sit there and ask questions. There's no wrong answer. There's no wrong way to do it. Just ask questions based on what they said and ask more questions based on what they said.
[00:26:34] There's this technique. That I learned in CBT a long time ago. That's the downward arrow technique you're essentially doing that. All you're doing is asking questions to keep going. You need to ask eight or nine questions based on what they're talking about to really uncover what's happening. And then you've got the first step of the process.
[00:26:50] Mickey Anderson: Wow. And I can, I can see how this kind of takes the, it takes the sleaze out of the whole sales process. Um, when we think of. Sales and the way that it makes us feel in our business and maybe we're sales averse, or we're avoiding it, or we're, we're, we're just uncomfortable making sales calls or sales conversations.
[00:27:10] Um, but also our wellness we're overworked, we're tired. And so when we get to that sales conversation, we don't feel that our best, how can we start to use those six pillars of wellness to improve our sales? Is there a way that we can connect the two.
[00:27:27] Chandler Walker: Yeah, I think so because sales is communication. And to be able to communicate, you have to have a clear mind and a clear brain and ability to think critically and ask good questions in this environment.
[00:27:37] And so what I think you need to look at in terms of your wellness to be better at sales is. You have to tackle the mental health, social health and sleep environments probably sleep as the most important component for sales. If you're not sleeping well, if you can't sleep well, it's time to install some systems to make your sleep better.
[00:27:54] And one of the things that I typically do is we'll create like a worry journal because what most people will do with. They'll sit there in their bed and they'll worry all night. And so what we typically teach people to do is retrain your brain for when it's time to worry. And so we'll open up a notebook, we'll take 15 minutes.
[00:28:10] You can stare at the wall or write down all your worries, and then you close it and you give yourself permission to let them go for the evening. And this might not work the first day or the second day, but over the course of a few weeks, what happens is your body learns that it needs to worry right before bed, and then it learns.
[00:28:25] It doesn't need to worry anymore. And so all of a sudden magically you can start sleeping. Wow.
[00:28:32] Mickey Anderson: And as a business owner, the worries are never ending almost. It feels like, or at least at first, but I love this concept because it's very much like, kind of like a gratitude journal only it's flipped on its head a little bit.
[00:28:41] Right. We're used to spending night thinking of all the things we're grateful for, but we kind of try and push down or maybe forget about all of our worries, but man, do they get to us all day long and, and being able to take dedicated time to commit to feeling and acknowledging your worries. Wow. What a powerful moment.
[00:29:00] Chandler Walker: Yeah, it's huge. And what you just said, I think is super important because entrepreneurs and people in general, trying to focus on mental wellness, only focus on the things that they're thankful for. They'll grab their graph. They have gratitude for, and the happy things, but they push aside the things that worry them.
[00:29:17] Bothered them. They make them fearful. And I think that's a huge problem because if we push that to the side, we never solve those problems. We never learned to deal with those issues. And so what we have to do is move those to front and center and work through those first and foremost, because if you only think happy thoughts, you're never truly going to be.
[00:29:34] Because the negative thoughts will always crowd out the happy, oh, we're
[00:29:38] Mickey Anderson: human, right? We, we have negative thoughts. You can't not. Yeah. When it comes to our social health, because I love that you talk about the environment we put ourselves in and the environment we create for ourselves as well. Uh, for a business owner, who's trying to create a better environment for themselves, but also maybe for their team or their family.
[00:29:57] Um, And are starting these new communication tactics in terms of their sales, what can they do in terms of creating a better environment or about. Place for them and their team.
[00:30:10] Chandler Walker: Yeah, that's a good question. So in our social health environment, what we do is we have this process, we call positive, neutral destructive.
[00:30:17] And so we take our entire social construct and environment in the beginning and we outline everybody we interact with as positive, neutral, or destructive. And then what we do is we say, okay, the destructive relationships, we give our self permission to let go of those relationships. If it's something that's really bothered you, if it's someone who harmed you as a child or had some.
[00:30:36] Issues that they created in your life. We allow, we let them write a letter. They don't have to send it to the person, but they write a letter and they just burn it because they're giving themselves permission to let it go. It has nothing to do with the other person. They're just removing that person's power in their life.
[00:30:48] And so we remove the destructive environments. Then we make decision. Are the people in the neutral. Are they people that could be positive and can we move them over? If so, we'll create that relationship. If not, then we also remove the neutral environment because there's no need to have people who just have no meaning in our life.
[00:31:05] Then what we do is we look at the positive environment and typically these are the people we don't talk to very much who we haven't interacted with that much. We tend to sit in the destructive side. And so then we make a game plan to start interacted with creating relationships, spend time with, and have more with the positive relationship.
[00:31:23] Mickey Anderson: And like the quote, um, we are the sum of the people we spend the most time with, comes to mind here because your. Intentionally and actively nurturing those relationships that are going to positively influence you instead of like hoping and praying that those are going to get better or stay the same.
[00:31:43] Exactly. If we have people in the neutral and we want to know. To the positive, because I know in my life, at least I have a lot of neutral people. I have a few negative people or destructive people. I do have a lot of positive people, but there are some in that neutral field who I would love to move and have the potential to move to the positive side.
[00:32:01] Is there anything that I can do actively to stop? Shifting them over or helping them to kind of shine in their best light for me.
[00:32:09] Chandler Walker: Yeah. That's a good question. And so what I think you can do in that environment and what we look at for the neutral people is they're just relationships that haven't been nurtured.
[00:32:17] They're typically people who like us, they want to be part of our lives. We just let them sit there. And then they really haven't had an influence where we haven't been able to open up to them or really have a good communication relationship with them. And so what we'll typically do is we'll take those people and we'll start initiating contact.
[00:32:31] So maybe we go out for coffee. Maybe we jump on zoom. If you're in an environment where you can't go for coffee, maybe you just give them a quick phone call. A quick text message. And so these people, we start creating a strategy to begin communication, to increase communications. So at the beginning, Hey, I, I don't want to call them.
[00:32:47] Okay. Let's text him. All right, cool. I texted them. They responded, what do I do? Respond to them like a human they'll be a friend, build a relationship with them. And so we tend to overcomplicate these things. And our philosophy is to Uncomplicate the seemingly complicated,
[00:33:02] Mickey Anderson: uh, uh, it reminds me of another quote that I've heard before and it's, um, uh, take responsibility for the energy you bring into the room.
[00:33:12] And it makes me think like take responsibility for the energy you bring to your relationship.
[00:33:17] Chandler Walker: Exactly. And that's huge. I like that quote because it tells you, all you have to do is communicate. You don't have to. And this is another thing we look at, but you don't have to fake the funk. You don't have to pretend you don't have to build a facade.
[00:33:28] You don't have to wear a mask because that's what everybody's doing. And everybody's also sick of it. So if you just be yourself, if you just communicate, you bridge the positive relationships into your life and the real relationship. Oh,
[00:33:42] Mickey Anderson: now there's one topic that I really want to make sure we carve some time out for, because the moment you set it, as one of the pillars, my mind went wild and its wealth, because a lot of times we allow, or maybe we're in a position where our finances
[00:33:58] are negatively impacting all of the other areas of our life. I can't afford to get mental health counseling. I can't afford, or I've got bills that come in and they stress me out or I've got XYZ happening in my life. What can we start to do actively to help improve the wellness of our wealth?
[00:34:14] Chandler Walker: Yeah. So I think this is a super important pillar because as entrepreneurs, it's one of the biggest struggles.
[00:34:20] And so what we do to start looking at our wealth. We have to understand first where our wealth creation comes from. And so we look at our business, what are our, what are the pathways were created wealth? And usually what I see with business owners is there's 48 different revenue pathways, and none of them really make any sense.
[00:34:38] And so what we need to do is we need to remove. All of them and keep the one that produces 97% of the revenue, because typically what we're doing is we're creating products that don't have any meaning or make sense, but we have one that works really well. So we need to remove all of the competing products and just have one thing we can focus on because if you focus on one thing, you'll make a lot of money with that one thing, then what we need to do next is we need to understand the channels of where we're spending or using our wealth.
[00:35:03] So we have to define what is our, what are our monthly, essentially monthly budget look like. Both in the business. And personally, because another issue here is personal problems become business problems. If you can't manage your finances personally, you're going to wreck yourself and your business. And so what that means is you either learn to do your own bookkeeping in the beginning, which I really liked, because then you can learn how to map out your finances and understand your money, where it's coming, how it's moving, then you hire a bookkeeper to manage your finances.
[00:35:30] Then you trickle that down. Now you can manage your personal finances and you can say, okay, this is what I bring home. This is what I take home. This is what I have available. And then if there's a. Now you have a red line, you have a gap of where you don't have enough and you need more. So now what happens is your business has to make more money to bridge that gap.
[00:35:47] And so what we teach is, okay, now we need to create more wealth in our business by focusing on that one thing to fill that gap. And then the next strategy as you look at that is okay. Now, once the gaps filled now, once we're in the green, now, once we're making enough money to survive, you have to recognize that.
[00:36:03] There's probably a 97% chance. You're not going to be able to sell your business only, probably even less. It's probably even worse. I think only 1% of business owners actually sell. And so now you have to say, okay, if I'm just making enough to survive or if I'm making money, but I'm not doing anything with it, I am not going to be able to retire.
[00:36:21] I'm going to have to work till I'm a hundred years old to somehow survive, or I'm going to live off some social, social security check that I probably won't get. Cause I didn't pay enough into it as an entrepreneur. And so then you have to say. Where can we create compounded, returns and growth in our business?
[00:36:36] And we call this looping leverage. So we take the profits, we earn, we take the money. We, we earn from our businesses. We move it into the markets. We allow that to loop and compound. And then over time, that turns into the ability to retire created from these compound investments. Because as Einstein said, compound interest is the, what is it?
[00:36:55] The ninth wonder of the world. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:36:57] Mickey Anderson: Wow. And you know what you, you said, I want to say it's like a gem that I want to make sure I repeat because I don't want anyone to skip over it. And a lot of business owners worry so much about what the competition is doing and beating the competition. So they create more products to beat the competition because they created more products.
[00:37:14] But in reality, they're competing against themselves in a lot. And so by removing those excess or unnecessary offers and products and services, they take away a lot of the competition. Uh, and I, I love that because I hear so many business owners who really don't even know how they make.
[00:37:31] Chandler Walker: Exactly. You're like, where's your, what's your main, what's your single source of revenue.
[00:37:35] What's your single channel of revenue. And usually the response is, I don't know I to sell this and that and this and 14 eBooks and I don't have enough fingers for how many things I sell. I'm like, okay, well, we got a problem. We can fix it. They'll
[00:37:46] Mickey Anderson: tell us how many followers they have on Instagram, but not how much money they're making per product, um, when it comes to measuring progress in all of this.
[00:37:54] So as a business owner, obviously KPIs can be really helpful to know whether something's working or not. And so for a business owner who starts to tackle these six pillars of wellness in their life, what maybe are some ways that they can. No, whether things are working or they're moving in the right direction.
[00:38:11] Are there any like red flags they should be looking for that you can think of?
[00:38:16] Chandler Walker: Yeah. So basically what we do is we create the belief value scale. And what this does is it allows you to assign KPIs to the performance of where you want to be. And so what happens is we have the KPIs scale. We created originally beliefs versus values.
[00:38:28] What I believe in what I'm living up to, and now you take a daily into. And so that daily inventory is okay, family today was a two. I spent three minutes with my daughter. Darn it. And tomorrow I need to do better. I'm now self-aware and over time, we'll look at it over a period of 30 days and say, okay, well let's average out your family belief.
[00:38:44] Okay. Well, let's see. In the beginning you had a three, you've moved up to a four, so let's celebrate this micro progress. You're doing better. And so what happens is now they're, they're aware of it every day. They're tracking it every day. They're paying attention to it, and this inventory becomes the way they can track the performance of their life.
[00:39:02] Mickey Anderson: And even just as a reflective, like at the end of the day, being able to sit down and take some dedicated, intentional time to say like, Did I did I live up to what I hope to be today? Where's my room for growth. What can I celebrate? I think could be a really powerful way for an entrepreneur to start both seeing their own progress.
[00:39:22] Because a lot of times we don't recognize our own progress. We look at all the other things, but we never look internally so that I feel like it could be just so
[00:39:29] Chandler Walker: powerful. Yeah. That's huge. And what you can do is it's like, okay, today I gave myself a six. Why did I give myself a six? What went well? What could have been improved on and what am I going to do tomorrow?
[00:39:42] So those three questions allow you to really just analyze what's happening, why and where progress can be made.
[00:39:48] Mickey Anderson: You're like those three questions in almost any area of your life, even sales, for example, like what went well, what could be done better? Right. When we think of our sales, um, in a business, as we're starting to see.
[00:40:01] Work on these conversations. Are there KPIs we should be tracking in terms of sales?
[00:40:06] Chandler Walker: Yeah, there's a couple of KPIs we should look at. We always, we always want to track, are we on? We want to understand the percentage of people we're enrolling in our services. So we understand what our close rate is. We also want to understand what our return rate is.
[00:40:18] And so for me, what that is is. Removes the idea that I need to close everybody today and recognize that I can track and pay attention to the people coming back. Because what happens in this process is usually people they'll double or triple their enrollment rates because they just don't feel terrible about a sales is no longer death for them.
[00:40:35] But what happens as well is the people who don't buy today, they come back tomorrow. They come back in a week, they come back in three weeks and then all of a sudden you have this pipeline of people just snowballing back in and your business becomes less dependent on front end revenue. And all of a sudden, you have this channel of revenue now that you don't even have to run ads for it.
[00:40:53] You don't have to pay for it because their leads you've already acquired. And people who trust and believe in you who are ready to buy.
[00:40:59] Mickey Anderson: So for someone who doesn't have a brick and mortar who doesn't necessarily get the face-to-face interaction, someone walking in the door and there. Basically selling online, whether it's through a sales page, whether it's to their social media or potentially some sales calls online, is there a way to take what we've learned today about sales conversations and translate that and the way that we advertise or market our business?
[00:41:21] Chandler Walker: Yeah, that's a good question. So part of what we teach inside of our sales are we call it the compassion conversations academy. And so what we teach in there are two components to. Maybe three, but the two big components are number one is communication. So sales in the spoken word, both in-person on zoom and on a phone call.
[00:41:39] How to handle those three environments and onstage. What happens if you have 17 people, 700 people you're speaking to then on the other side of things, what we teach as sales from the written perspective. So copy how to write copy captivates hearts and minds and, and beliefs and philosophies. And in my opinion, if you truly are good and master sales, it's not just being able to speak it.
[00:42:01] It's being able to write it. And because when you write it, it's now taking everything you're doing in your sales conversations and moving it into the written environment. And so it's the same way. What I tell people to do is copy isn't about features and benefits and like emojis, like you'll see some of the Facebook ads with a paragraph and then 84 emojis.
[00:42:20] You just ignore it because it's an ad and you don't care. What you need to do is learn to write in a way that taps into people's emotional philosophies and emotional epicenters, the same way we do in sales. So you have to ask yourself these questions. Okay. What's the external idea. What's the internal belief.
[00:42:36] It's okay. Newsflash leads. Aren't your problem? Okay. Well, what is my problem then? I definitely think leads or micro. It's the fact that you've hired 75 different people. None of these people performed well and it's not their fault. The big problem is blah blah. And so now we lead them into a real story.
[00:42:56] We lead them into the idea that it's something different and we start to change and mold that belief into the real problem. And now we help them connect the dots as they're reading, by creating these analogies and by helping them understand what's really happening.
[00:43:10] Mickey Anderson: It sounds like almost you're you're flipping it so where instead of you asking the questions, you're prompting them to ask them. Those same questions. So it's like the internal dialogue.
[00:43:20] Chandler Walker: The reader's like, wait, how do you know me? You know, you're really good at this when people will comment and be like, how are you in my head?
[00:43:27] Mickey Anderson: Wow. Um, so to kind of sum up, I think we've learned today that sales doesn't have to be sleazy.
[00:43:36] It can be a compassionate. For someone to come in and learn more about themselves through questions and the sales person can be a helpful, uh, honest, ethical person. They're just purely to help. Um, and the other thing that I've learned today is really the trickle effect of prioritizing and intentionally making space for the different aspects of my wellness and seeing them and tracking them on a daily basis, how powerful. Now I got that right.
[00:44:07] Chandler Walker: That's perfect. You send it up magically.
[00:44:10] Mickey Anderson: If I had to ask you to give new business owners who are struggling, their wellness is not peak. Um, maybe they're the person who looked down and saw family as a 10 and their belief, but their day to day is like a two. And they want to start making these changes and growing their business, but also feeling better about it.
[00:44:29] What's one piece of advice or tip that you would give.
[00:44:34] Chandler Walker: Yeah, that's a good question. And that was me my first year of business. I think I woke up at 4:00 AM and I'd go to bed at midnight and it was just a disaster the whole time. So what I learned and what I think is important is to reduce the complexity and reduce the dependence on you for as many things as possible, but in micro-segments because you have to be financially aware that you can't just hire everybody.
[00:44:53] So I think the first step in this environment is to write down everything you're doing and then write down your red task, three yellow tasks and your green tasks. Then you take the green task and you go hire a virtual assistant. You can get a virtual assistant and from all over the place for anywhere.
[00:45:09] I mean, we pay ours $10 an hour, but I think you'd get them like as low as $3 an hour, depending on where your business is, but you can get one of those to handle all of your green tasks. And now usually those green tasks of miserable. There's the thing you're working on seven hours a day. Now, all of a sudden red and yellow tasks, don't take you very long because they're usually thinking tasks and their tasks to have to accomplish their tasks of like doing a live video, their tasks of creating a Facebook ad, their tasks of doing your sales.
[00:45:33] And so. Once you remove those green tasks, all of a sudden, now you have the time to do the other things. And then as you do the red and yellow, you start writing down everything you're doing in those tasks. So eventually you can outsource that kind of stuff too. And you're not always just going to give it to a VA.
[00:45:46] Eventually you have to hire like people to manage higher level stuff. But I think that's the beginning, reduce the complexity of what you're doing throughout your day by removing slowly removing the least important pieces. So you have the time to grow into. Wow,
[00:46:00] Mickey Anderson: so that your priorities in any area you can and intentionally focus on them and find a way to let go of or delegate or get rid of the rest.
[00:46:11] Chandler Walker: Exactly. And big, important piece here is nobody's ever going to be as good as you at doing the tasks in your business. And that's okay. Because if you can't let that go, if you can't let that control. You are now a slave to your business for the rest of your life. So you have to check the ego and let other people step in, give them systems and allow them to shine.
[00:46:33] Mickey Anderson: Oh, brilliant. For our listeners who maybe want to start accessing you for help in their sales process to learn more about you, where can they find you on.
[00:46:43] Chandler Walker: Yeah. So there's a couple of different ways. Number one, if you want to get my entire framework, it's the nine step framework to creating compassion conversations.
[00:46:49] Basically our sales system mapped out for you and handed over free on a silver platter. Just go to nine step dot culture of care.life. That's the number nine step dot culture of care.life. If you want to connect with me personally and ask questions, or if you want to get into like the seven pillars program, just go to instagram.com forward slash Chandler underscore SAF and just DM.
[00:47:10] Let's go and then I'll respond and communicate. You'll see me in there. My profile picture is a surf board with my daughter. It's a fun environment on Instagram. And then if you just want to watch videos, I do a lot of stuff on wealth right now. And if you want to look at videos and, and what that environment looks like, and you're just, you're a video person, just go to youtube.com forward slash Chandler Walker, SAF.
[00:47:29] Okay. Awesome. Thank you so much for your time. I learned a ton and I know our audience did too. I can't thank you enough for.
[00:47:36] Yeah, thanks for having me on. If y'all enjoyed this episode, make sure you like and subscribe to this awesome podcast and leave a five-star review. I think that's the most important thing of the day.
[00:47:46] Thank you so much.